kiwimacnz
Active member
Your experiences are not normative for all Christians.
Women Are Not To Teach From The Pulpit or In Church Media.
- Thread starter Jabez
- Start date
kiwimacnz
Active member
Male and female God created them; male and female we ordain them.
Were is that found?
kiwimacnz
Active member
In the canons of any reasonable church.
If you look into the history of the early church, it was the heretical churches that initiated the practice of ordaining both men and women.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife.
They didn't have gay marriage in those days. I expect your church allows that also.
Last edited:
We're talking about women leaders here, not women serving in the church. There is scant support in Acts for any such thing.
Altars were unknown to the early church. 430AD is very far removed from the apostolic age. Women being at the altar doesn't indicate what role they were performing. May be there were serving.
May be they were eunuchs, may be they were effeminate men, may be they were barbarians. We know there were many effeminate men in Rome: it wasn't only Paul railing against them. And the siege of Rome by Hippo Regius took place from June 430 to August 431, carried out by the Vandals under their king Genseric against Roman defenders under Boniface, Count of Africa.
In those days, God's wrath was being poured out against corrupt Rome. Hardly the evidence we're looking for to substantiate a practice unsupported by scripture.
kiwimacnz
Active member
Rot and nonsense.
Marcionite congregations existed in Rome up until the Gothic invasion. You don't know anything about what they believed. Also, such pictures would have illustrated the practices of elites. Even today the beliefs of the elites are decadent and don't reflect those of the poorer sections.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Reason-a bull church?
kind d of insulting .....
Women give birth ..... and that is the way it goes.
You are trying to accuse others of saying women do not matter.
So what if you "ordain" .... in your church.
My Mother gave birth to me .....
Pretty sure she was not ordained in your church.
Rot ....... and nonesense indeed.
Last edited:
Beloved Daughter
Super Member
Only in opposition to scripture. Women are not supposed to teach men, or preach from the pulpit.
Take your opinion to the Apostle Paul who wrote the majority of the New Testament. He praises Priscilla and others for their help in teaching Apollos. Women can be important in the big picture of ministry, but scripture imposes limits. I follow them.
Beloved Daughter
Super Member
It is normative for legitimate Christians. The scriptures deny what you say.
What does the Bible say about women pastors? | GotQuestions.org
What does the Bible say about women pastors? Does the Bible restrict a woman from serving as a pastor?
www.gotquestions.org
There is perhaps no more hotly debated issue in the church today than the issue of women serving as pastors. As a result, it is very important to not see this issue as men versus women. There are women who believe women should not serve as pastors and that the Bible places restrictions on the ministry of women, and there are men who believe women can serve as pastors and that there are no restrictions on women in ministry. This is not an issue of chauvinism or discrimination. It is an issue of biblical interpretation.
The Word of God proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11–12). In the church, God assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created and the way in which sin entered the world (1 Timothy 2:13–14). God, through the apostle Paul, restricts women from serving in roles of teaching and/or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors over men, which definitely includes preaching to them, teaching them publicly, and exercising spiritual authority over them.
There are many objections to this view of women in pastoral ministry. A common one is that Paul restricts women from teaching because in the first century, women were typically uneducated. However, 1 Timothy 2:11–14 nowhere mentions educational status. If education were a qualification for ministry, then the majority of Jesus’ disciples would not have been qualified. A second common objection is that Paul only restricted the women of Ephesus from teaching men (1 Timothy was written to Timothy, the pastor of the church in Ephesus). Ephesus was known for its temple to Artemis, and women were the authorities in that branch of paganism—therefore, the theory goes, Paul was only reacting against the female-led customs of the Ephesian idolaters, and the church needed to be different. However, the book of 1 Timothy nowhere mentions Artemis, nor does Paul mention the standard practice of Artemis worshipers as a reason for the restrictions in 1 Timothy 2:11–12.
A third objection is that Paul is only referring to husbands and wives, not men and women in general. The Greek words for “woman” and “man” in 1 Timothy 2 could refer to husbands and wives; however, the basic meaning of the words is broader than that. Further, the same Greek words are used in verses 8–10. Are only husbands to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger and disputing (verse 8)? Are only wives to dress modestly, have good deeds, and worship God (verses 9–10)? Of course not. Verses 8–10 clearly refer to all men and women, not just husbands and wives. There is nothing in the context that would indicate a narrowing to husbands and wives in verses 11–14.
Yet another objection to this interpretation of women in pastoral ministry is in relation to women who held positions of leadership in the Bible, specifically Miriam, Deborah, and Huldah in the Old Testament. It is true that these women were chosen by God for special service to Him and that they stand as models of faith, courage, and, yes, leadership. However, the authority of women in the Old Testament is not relevant to the issue of pastors in the church. The New Testament Epistles present a new paradigm for God’s people—the church, the body of Christ—and that paradigm involves an authority structure unique to the church, not for the nation of Israel or any other Old Testament entity.
Similar arguments are made using Priscilla and Phoebe in the New Testament. In Acts 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Christ. Priscilla’s name is mentioned first, perhaps indicating that she was more prominent in ministry than her husband. Did Priscilla and her husband teach the gospel of Jesus Christ to Apollos? Yes, in their home they “explained to him the way of God more adequately” (Acts 18:26). Does the Bible ever say that Priscilla pastored a church or taught publicly or became the spiritual leader of a congregation of saints? No. As far as we know, Priscilla was not involved in ministry activity in contradiction to 1 Timothy 2:11–14.
In Romans 16:1, Phoebe is called a “deacon” (or “servant”) in the church and is highly commended by Paul. But, as with Priscilla, there is nothing in Scripture to indicate that Phoebe was a pastor or a teacher of men in the church. “Able to teach” is given as a qualification for elders, but not for deacons (1 Timothy 3:1–13; Titus 1:6–9).
The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11–14 makes the reason why women cannot be pastors perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for,” giving the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11–12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived” (verses 13–14). God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. The order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22–33) and in the church.
The fact that Eve was deceived is also given in 1 Timothy 2:14 as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having spiritual authority over men. This does not mean that women are gullible or that they are all more easily deceived than men. If all women are more easily deceived, why would they be allowed to teach children (who are easily deceived) and other women (who are supposedly more easily deceived)? The text simply says that women are not to teach men or have spiritual authority over men because Eve was deceived. God has chosen to give men the primary teaching authority in the church.
Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, evangelism, and helping/serving. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18–20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).
God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3–5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s plan and His gifting of them.
kiwimacnz
Active member
I reject your interpretation.It is normative for legitimate Christians. The scriptures deny what you say.
What does the Bible say about women pastors? | GotQuestions.org
What does the Bible say about women pastors? Does the Bible restrict a woman from serving as a pastor?www.gotquestions.org
There is perhaps no more hotly debated issue in the church today than the issue of women serving as pastors. As a result, it is very important to not see this issue as men versus women. There are women who believe women should not serve as pastors and that the Bible places restrictions on the ministry of women, and there are men who believe women can serve as pastors and that there are no restrictions on women in ministry. This is not an issue of chauvinism or discrimination. It is an issue of biblical interpretation.
The Word of God proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11–12). In the church, God assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created and the way in which sin entered the world (1 Timothy 2:13–14). God, through the apostle Paul, restricts women from serving in roles of teaching and/or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors over men, which definitely includes preaching to them, teaching them publicly, and exercising spiritual authority over them.
There are many objections to this view of women in pastoral ministry. A common one is that Paul restricts women from teaching because in the first century, women were typically uneducated. However, 1 Timothy 2:11–14 nowhere mentions educational status. If education were a qualification for ministry, then the majority of Jesus’ disciples would not have been qualified. A second common objection is that Paul only restricted the women of Ephesus from teaching men (1 Timothy was written to Timothy, the pastor of the church in Ephesus). Ephesus was known for its temple to Artemis, and women were the authorities in that branch of paganism—therefore, the theory goes, Paul was only reacting against the female-led customs of the Ephesian idolaters, and the church needed to be different. However, the book of 1 Timothy nowhere mentions Artemis, nor does Paul mention the standard practice of Artemis worshipers as a reason for the restrictions in 1 Timothy 2:11–12.
A third objection is that Paul is only referring to husbands and wives, not men and women in general. The Greek words for “woman” and “man” in 1 Timothy 2 could refer to husbands and wives; however, the basic meaning of the words is broader than that. Further, the same Greek words are used in verses 8–10. Are only husbands to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger and disputing (verse 8)? Are only wives to dress modestly, have good deeds, and worship God (verses 9–10)? Of course not. Verses 8–10 clearly refer to all men and women, not just husbands and wives. There is nothing in the context that would indicate a narrowing to husbands and wives in verses 11–14.
Yet another objection to this interpretation of women in pastoral ministry is in relation to women who held positions of leadership in the Bible, specifically Miriam, Deborah, and Huldah in the Old Testament. It is true that these women were chosen by God for special service to Him and that they stand as models of faith, courage, and, yes, leadership. However, the authority of women in the Old Testament is not relevant to the issue of pastors in the church. The New Testament Epistles present a new paradigm for God’s people—the church, the body of Christ—and that paradigm involves an authority structure unique to the church, not for the nation of Israel or any other Old Testament entity.
Similar arguments are made using Priscilla and Phoebe in the New Testament. In Acts 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Christ. Priscilla’s name is mentioned first, perhaps indicating that she was more prominent in ministry than her husband. Did Priscilla and her husband teach the gospel of Jesus Christ to Apollos? Yes, in their home they “explained to him the way of God more adequately” (Acts 18:26). Does the Bible ever say that Priscilla pastored a church or taught publicly or became the spiritual leader of a congregation of saints? No. As far as we know, Priscilla was not involved in ministry activity in contradiction to 1 Timothy 2:11–14.
In Romans 16:1, Phoebe is called a “deacon” (or “servant”) in the church and is highly commended by Paul. But, as with Priscilla, there is nothing in Scripture to indicate that Phoebe was a pastor or a teacher of men in the church. “Able to teach” is given as a qualification for elders, but not for deacons (1 Timothy 3:1–13; Titus 1:6–9).
The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11–14 makes the reason why women cannot be pastors perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for,” giving the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11–12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived” (verses 13–14). God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. The order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22–33) and in the church.
The fact that Eve was deceived is also given in 1 Timothy 2:14 as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having spiritual authority over men. This does not mean that women are gullible or that they are all more easily deceived than men. If all women are more easily deceived, why would they be allowed to teach children (who are easily deceived) and other women (who are supposedly more easily deceived)? The text simply says that women are not to teach men or have spiritual authority over men because Eve was deceived. God has chosen to give men the primary teaching authority in the church.
Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, evangelism, and helping/serving. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18–20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).
God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3–5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s plan and His gifting of them.
Arikel88
Active member
Women can preach the word and did preach in temples. psalm 68:11 standard bible version not kingjames version says The lord comamnds that women give good news. if you read it you will find that back in those days the way people knew of the existence of Israel was thru songs that were made people who passed thru Israel for commerce heard those songs and they told other people of the feats of Israel. Remember those times talking and sayiing hi was common like we think in those times the point of the sword, eye for an eye, the strong will rule did't let poor common people womena nd men to just go to one place and say hi and not being stabbed on the wya or kiled in the town by people. it is common in those times the violence. No such thing they had rights or just come up and be welcomed warring tribes and the first time to see someon clse to town they come and hold you ransom.
Only commerce and diplomacy could let you go to town and town people knowing you and letting you passed no harder times that is why singing was the way people know what happen in towns and exploits thruout the land. Women sanged and in those was the way people heard the gospel and stories of saul killed his hundres but david killed his thousands. Know the psalms in the bible was the way that womena nd men sanged in the temple of solomon and before women sanged at the tabernacle when moses had the ark they sanged the song of Miriam, victory song of hebrew people. In psalms God talks to Israel and says that young men and women to sing praise to him in the temple he doesn't asks it he orders it -_-. Know that in exodus their is verse says women helped build the tabernacle and in the tabernacle they did service cleanig, helping the people inside, now that you know that women sanged with men inside the temple and priest of the temple had thier daughters and sons sing in the temple to worship God day on. Just to show they did sing in the temple and thus preach.
Only commerce and diplomacy could let you go to town and town people knowing you and letting you passed no harder times that is why singing was the way people know what happen in towns and exploits thruout the land. Women sanged and in those was the way people heard the gospel and stories of saul killed his hundres but david killed his thousands. Know the psalms in the bible was the way that womena nd men sanged in the temple of solomon and before women sanged at the tabernacle when moses had the ark they sanged the song of Miriam, victory song of hebrew people. In psalms God talks to Israel and says that young men and women to sing praise to him in the temple he doesn't asks it he orders it -_-. Know that in exodus their is verse says women helped build the tabernacle and in the tabernacle they did service cleanig, helping the people inside, now that you know that women sanged with men inside the temple and priest of the temple had thier daughters and sons sing in the temple to worship God day on. Just to show they did sing in the temple and thus preach.
Arikel88
Active member
See that in the old days of the testament of God women sanged and it is preaching the message and word of God, did Jesus said to women to prach the good news and tell what he said to everyone. Some Christians say when 12 disciples were with jeses he was only refering to thema s the only one's to preach ? nope Jesusas siad to the multitude and his followers and women were aong them to repeat and tell everyone what he said.
Matthew 16:15-20, Luke 9:23-27, and Luke 24:44 said it Jesus was talking to women too to give the word and gospel to everyone and that's teaching so that's also preaching like singing in the old times.
Women prophets, women queens, women apostles do exist and are in the bible. New testamen says about women apostle did help the erly church more thinsg copming know that know more made cartoons explainig all this and have covered the old testamen and new testament here where I got my information
Here A good angel made summary of all things women had good, bad and neutral things in the bible with bible verses to back it up. check it please know that thier were more things women from the tribe of Efrain who build 3 cities before the 10 commandments was in and was cheif of them. Sage like leader like Deborah was that women, another women who had to cut head of person in A city to save it, women was prophet but had no name and was forgotten by time, Esther who saved her people, thier are women that people do not read and don't realize they existed were writtne in the bible and had equal status or higher in the law of moses.
Know that God did favor women and gave higher status before thelaw, in the law and after the law know that women bore A god and that is jesus mother A feat only women have and not men.
Matthew 16:15-20, Luke 9:23-27, and Luke 24:44 said it Jesus was talking to women too to give the word and gospel to everyone and that's teaching so that's also preaching like singing in the old times.
Women prophets, women queens, women apostles do exist and are in the bible. New testamen says about women apostle did help the erly church more thinsg copming know that know more made cartoons explainig all this and have covered the old testamen and new testament here where I got my information
Here A good angel made summary of all things women had good, bad and neutral things in the bible with bible verses to back it up. check it please know that thier were more things women from the tribe of Efrain who build 3 cities before the 10 commandments was in and was cheif of them. Sage like leader like Deborah was that women, another women who had to cut head of person in A city to save it, women was prophet but had no name and was forgotten by time, Esther who saved her people, thier are women that people do not read and don't realize they existed were writtne in the bible and had equal status or higher in the law of moses.
Know that God did favor women and gave higher status before thelaw, in the law and after the law know that women bore A god and that is jesus mother A feat only women have and not men.
This is not the rendition. (Also interesting that the participle ευαγγελιζομένοις in the LXX is Masc./Neut not feminine as in Heb., but I ignore this as the LXX is problematic here). The "word" - that devine utterance, possibly the command for the victories, is what is being proclaimed. The women bring the good news of them.
Ellicott:
(11) The Lord gave . . .—Literally, The Lord gives a word. Of the women who bring the news, the host is great. The Hebrew for a word is poetical, and used especially of a Divine utterance (Psalm 19:4; Psalm 77:8; Habakkuk 3:9). Here it might mean either the signal for the conflict, or the announcement of victory. But the custom of granting to bands of maidens the privilege of celebrating a triumph (Exodus 15:20-21; Judges 5, Judges 11:34; 1Samuel 18:6; 2Samuel 1:20), here evidently alluded to, makes in favour of the latter.
Barnes:
The Lord gave the word - The command, or the order. It is not certain to what the psalmist here refers; whether to some particular occasion then fresh in the recollection of the people, when a great victory had been gained, which it was the design of the psalm to celebrate; or whether it is a general statement in regard to the doings of God, having reference to all his victories and triumphs, and meaning that in all cases the command came from him. The subsequent verses make it evident that there is an allusion here to the ark of the covenant, and to the victories which had been achieved under that as a guide or protector. The entire psalm refers to the ark, and its triumphs; and the idea here seems to be, that in all the victories which had been achieved the "word" or the command came from God, and that its promulgation was immediately made by a "great company" who stood ready to communicate it or to "publish" it.
Great was the company of those that published it - Margin, army. More literally, "The women publishing it were a great host." The word used is in the feminine gender, and refers to the Oriental custom whereby females celebrated victories in songs and dances. See Exodus 15:20-21; Judges 11:34; Judges 21:21; 1 Samuel 18:6-7. The idea here is, that when there was a proclamation of war - when God commanded his people to go out to battle, and to take with them the ark, the females of the land - the singers - were ready to make known the proclamation; to celebrate the will of the Lord by songs and dances; to cheer and encourage their husbands, brothers, and fathers, as they went out to the conflict. The result is stated in the following verse.
Psalm 68:12
Kings of armies did flee apace: and she that tarried at home divided the spoil.
Kings of armies did flee apace - Margin, as in Hebrew, did flee, did flee. This is the Hebrew mode of expressing that which is emphatic or superlative. It is by simply repeating the word. The idea is, that they fled speedily; they fled at once, and in alarm. Psalm 68:12-13 are marked by DeWette as a quotation, and the language is supposed by him to be the substance of the song that was sung by the women as referred to in Psalm 68:11. This supposition is not improbable. The reference is, undoubtedly, to the former victories achieved by the people of God when they went out to war; and the idea is, that when the command came, when God gave the word Psalm 68:11, their foes fled in consternation.
And she that tarried at home divided the spoil - The women remaining in their homes, while the men went out to war. On them devolved the office of dividing the plunder, and of giving the proper portions to each of the victors. They would take an interest in the battle, and receive the booty, and assign the portion due to each of the brave soldiers - the more acceptable as given to them by female hands. Possibly, however, the meaning may be, that the victors would bring the plunder home, and lay it at the feet of their wives and daughters to be divided among the women themselves. The dividing of the spoils of battle after a victory was always an important act. Compare Judges 5:30; Joshua 7:21; 1 Chronicles 26:27; Hebrews 7:4.
Last edited:
Arikel88
Active member
People do words mean different as written but the actions about singing and the world listening shows that they did give word of God's action of Israel. Thru that way they preached they said the word to all to know of God's people. Cjab did througouh study and also their Cjab in the link is website that I put is A guy who knows more than you and I ;D: Know women did have more purpose they preach, Deborah went to war to save her people, their was A queen in Israel that did existed, even in the law of moses women did have higher status than men, know that the way women were equal to men in the law of moses is thru property A widow can sell her property like in the book ruth says so the law was amde and has more than 30 laws I read that make them higher than men in the moshe law.
So much and women don't know it and men do not know they ahve the knowing from t.v. and books of history that the law was for only men and they do not know God put laws that favor them and not men. More things are hidden and not know later make A full draft because of the website christian think tank I made 5 episodes of it all and it's 4-5 hours believe me it was going to be 6-7 hours uff. Know found things people don't talk about and more information is coming ;D.
So much and women don't know it and men do not know they ahve the knowing from t.v. and books of history that the law was for only men and they do not know God put laws that favor them and not men. More things are hidden and not know later make A full draft because of the website christian think tank I made 5 episodes of it all and it's 4-5 hours believe me it was going to be 6-7 hours uff. Know found things people don't talk about and more information is coming ;D.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Now look at the context to see what's REALLY being taught.