Calvinist Ordo Salutis

Where does my observation conflict with the Bible, pray tell.

There are unbelievers that do good out there:

Rom 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves;
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,
Rom 2:16 in a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Where does this teach "unbelievers that do good"?

What this is saying is that unbelievers murder, commit adultery, steal, lie, etc. etc., which are all "the things of the Law".

That's WHY they "accuse one another" (of their sins),
and that's why they "excuse one another" (defending their sins).

Otherwise, you have Rom. 2 contradicting Rom. 3 (as you always do):

Rom. 3:9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”

13 “Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”

14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Rom. 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
 
I believe that the OT saints were kept under the forbearance of God until Christ death on the cross. I believe all the elect were justified in Christ's death at the cross and Faith comes by hearing the Gospel.

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Romans 5:9 KJV

In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
Isaiah 45:25 KJV

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:11 KJV

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:16 KJV
I agree with what you wrote.
 
If there is no temporal order then logically everything involved in the new birth would happen at once, at the same time, no before or after.

Temporally, you are correct.
And I've never said anything different.

You seem to be conflating "temporal order" and "logical order".
 
Rom 8:9You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

The work of the Holy Spirit is done through his imminent presence in us. Without the Spirit, there is no life!

Doug
What is the apostle Paul's ordo salutis? How was Paul saved? What came first, second, third...etc for Paul?
 
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Read Roman’s 1 first bud.
Read it. It's Romans 2:13-16 that makes my point that there really are unbelievers out there that practice good consciences and have good hearts. Not every unbeliever is a hard-core God hater who is at enmity with God.
 
So you don't know?
Think about it. He has an experience with Jesus on the road to Damascus. Then he goes to Anaias and is baptized and receives the Holy Spirit. Temporally Paul received the Spirit at a different time.

Acts 9: 17 -19 So Ananias went and entered the house. He laid his hands on Saul[c] and said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on your way here, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and his sight was restored. Then he got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.
 
Read it. It's Romans 2:13-16 that makes my point that there really are unbelievers out there that practice good consciences and have good hearts. Not every unbeliever is a hard-core God hater who is at enmity with God.

Where does Rom. 2 say anything about "good" consciences or "good" hearts?
 
What this is saying is that unbelievers murder, commit adultery, steal, lie, etc. etc., which are all "the things of the Law".
You must live in one tough neighborhood. You should move out of there, seriously.
There's not even one person who practices a good conscience?
 
You must live in one tough neighborhood. You should move out of there, seriously.
There's not even one person who practices a good conscience?

So you're throwing out the Bible and trying to appeal to emotionalism and subjective experiences? I guess that explains your bankrupt theology.

I can't read minds, so I can't know anyone's "conscience".
But unlike you, I can (and do) rely on God's word, the Bible.
 
So you're throwing out the Bible and trying to appeal to emotionalism and subjective experiences? I guess that explains your bankrupt theology.

I can't read minds, so I can't know anyone's "conscience".
But unlike you, I can (and do) rely on God's word, the Bible.
Nope. You're the one who is denying the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit:

John 16:7 But I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you. But if I depart, I will send Him to you.
John 16:8 And when that One comes, He will convict the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment.
John 16:9 Concerning sin, because they do not believe on Me;
John 16:10 concerning righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
John 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
 
So you don't know?
I'm asking what your thoughts are on the subject. I believe, for Paul, faith, repentance, new birth.

Acts 9: 3-5 Now as he was going along and approaching Damascus, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” He asked, “Who are you, Lord?” The reply came, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting
Acts 22:10 I asked, ‘What am I to do, Lord?The Lord said to me, ‘Get up and go to Damascus; there you will be told everything that has been assigned to you to do.
Acts 9: 17 So Ananias went and entered the house. He laid his hands on Saul and said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on your way here, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Acts 22:16 16 And now why do you delay? Get up, be baptized, and have your sins washed away, calling on his name.
 
Nope. You're the one who is denying the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit:

John 16:7 But I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you. But if I depart, I will send Him to you.
John 16:8 And when that One comes, He will convict the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment.
John 16:9 Concerning sin, because they do not believe on Me;
John 16:10 concerning righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
John 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

I'm not "denying" anything.
"Convicting" means telling them, "You're guilty!"
That's why the guards aren't called "convicts", the prisoners are.
Do you truly not understand this?
Like I said, you don't understand the Bible.
 
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