The relationship between the Fall and Temple Ordinances

Aaron32

Aaron32

Well-known member
This guy is from my last ward. We had quite a spat about his conclusions at the end.


Am I wrong in believing temple ordinances don't help us overcome the Fall of Adam?
 
Aaron32 said:
This guy is from my last ward. We had quite a spat about his conclusions at the end.


Am I wrong in believing temple ordinances don't help us overcome the Fall of Adam?
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You’re right, Aaron.

In one breath, he says Christ paid for all of our sins and Adam’s, and we are made spotless. Then in the next breath he says we have to pay for that, to become “clean” and live with God.

He goes on to expound on things we have to do to pay the price. And he sneaks the Mormon temple ordinances in to his list. Something Christ never told us or required of us. Mormonism added to Christ’s gospel things that didn’t come from Christ. He warned us about doing that.
 
Magdalena said:
You’re right, Aaron.

In one breath, he says Christ paid for all of our sins and Adam’s, and we are made spotless.
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That's true--all babies are born saved, due to the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Spotless.

It's called the Redemption. All are redeemed from the condemnation of the Fall.

Magdalena said:
Then in the next breath he says we have to pay for that, to become “clean” and live with God.
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That's pertaining to those who have reached and age and reason where they are accountable for their choices.

Those are two different things. Jesus absolved all from the condemnation of the Fall--as a free gift to all men:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

No, Mag--there isn't something you have to do to earn that. It's a free gift to all men.

I believe the critics here testify one has to do something for that "free gift"?
 
dberrie2020 said:
That's true--all babies are born saved, due to the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Spotless.

It's called the Redemption. All are redeemed from the condemnation of the Fall.



That's pertaining to those who have reached and age and reason where they are accountable for their choices.

Those are two different things. Jesus absolved all from the condemnation of the Fall--as a free gift to all men:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

No, Mag--there isn't something you have to do to earn that. It's a free gift to all men.

I believe the critics here testify one has to do something for that "free gift"?
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You continue to attempt to skew mormon doctrine. It’s very disingenuous.
 
Magdalena said:
You’re right, Aaron.

In one breath, he says Christ paid for all of our sins and Adam’s, and we are made spotless. Then in the next breath he says we have to pay for that, to become “clean” and live with God.

He goes on to expound on things we have to do to pay the price. And he sneaks the Mormon temple ordinances in to his list. Something Christ never told us or required of us. Mormonism added to Christ’s gospel things that didn’t come from Christ. He warned us about doing that.
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Its truly sad that the teaching of the resurrected Christ are limited and not one word of the 40 days of preaching and teaching is revealed. Christians say its a repeat of all that was already taught... we say that it was to sacred to be recorded...
 
Richard7 said:
Its truly sad that the teaching of the resurrected Christ are limited and not one word of the 40 days of preaching and teaching is revealed. Christians say its a repeat of all that was already taught... we say that it was to sacred to be recorded...
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Whatever He said in those 40 days was not contrary to the gospel He gave us. Mormonism is.
 
Aaron32 said:
Is "believing Christ" = "doing something"?
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What does faith have to do with doing something; other then following Christ example and His commandments?

(Mosiah 4:26.) Alma asks, “Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God?” (Alma 5:27.) And Jesus promises those who repent, are baptized, and faithfully endure to the end, “him will I hold guiltless before my Father.” (3 Ne. 27:16.)

As we come to Christ in faith, repenting of our sins, and covenant with him in the waters of baptism to keep his commandments, he justifies us—treats us as though we are guiltless—even though we are not yet perfect. He does this so that we might receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, which will cleanse us of sin as we repent and work out our salvation “with fear and trembling.” S. Michael Wilcox,

So "believing Christ" = repenting, conventing and keeping his commandments = doing something.
 
Richard7 said:
What does faith have to do with doing something; other then following Christ example and His commandments?

(Mosiah 4:26.) Alma asks, “Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God?” (Alma 5:27.) And Jesus promises those who repent, are baptized, and faithfully endure to the end, “him will I hold guiltless before my Father.” (3 Ne. 27:16.)

As we come to Christ in faith, repenting of our sins, and covenant with him in the waters of baptism to keep his commandments, he justifies us—treats us as though we are guiltless—even though we are not yet perfect. He does this so that we might receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, which will cleanse us of sin as we repent and work out our salvation “with fear and trembling.” S. Michael Wilcox,

So "believing Christ" = repenting, conventing and keeping his commandments = doing something.
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I'm just trying to understand what @dberrie2020 is saying.
Are you disagreeing with him?
dberrie2020 said:
Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

No, Mag--there isn't something you have to do to earn that. It's a free gift to all men.

I believe the critics here testify one has to do something for that "free gift"?
Click to expand...
 
Richard7 said:
What does faith have to do with doing something; other then following Christ example and His commandments?

(Mosiah 4:26.) Alma asks, “Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God?” (Alma 5:27.) And Jesus promises those who repent, are baptized, and faithfully endure to the end, “him will I hold guiltless before my Father.” (3 Ne. 27:16.)

As we come to Christ in faith, repenting of our sins, and covenant with him in the waters of baptism to keep his commandments, he justifies us—treats us as though we are guiltless—even though we are not yet perfect. He does this so that we might receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, which will cleanse us of sin as we repent and work out our salvation “with fear and trembling.” S. Michael Wilcox,

So "believing Christ" = repenting, conventing and keeping his commandments = doing something.
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Okay, so you agree with what I said?
 
Richard7 said:
So you have the scripture from those 40 days? interesting.
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No--but then neither do Mormons. But the bible verses say that Jesus taught them about the Kingdom of God during that time. He did so during His earthly ministry. Nowhere did He mention Mormon temples and the Endowment ceremony. WE know what they taught, because is has been recorded in Acts, and in their epistles. Nothing in them is remotely about the Mormon temples and the rituals done therein. It wasn't "too sacred" to mention, but didn't exist!

The LDS church must make up stuff in order to "fill in the blanks" they think exist in the Bible.
 
Richard7 said:
You know the word of God (Bible) I doubt you understand personal revelation pertaining to truth...
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On the contrary. Jesus led me to the truth about mormonism thru personal revelation, as well as study of His words. He opened my heart and mind to the truth of His words, and I saw the direction I needed to take to follow Him. He continues to give my life direction. I am eternally grateful.
 
Magdalena said:
On the contrary. Jesus led me to the truth about mormonism thru personal revelation, as well as study of His words. He opened my heart and mind to the truth of His words, and I saw the direction I needed to take to follow Him. He continues to give my life direction. I am eternally grateful.
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Great, personal revelation is exactly how the Holy Ghost witnesses that Jesus is the Christ... I believe anyone who has revelation would first acknowledge this... Jesus is the Christ which I don't see you claiming..
 
Bonnie said:
No--but then neither do Mormons. But the bible verses say that Jesus taught them about the Kingdom of God during that time. He did so during His earthly ministry. Nowhere did He mention Mormon temples and the Endowment ceremony. WE know what they taught, because is has been recorded in Acts, and in their epistles. Nothing in them is remotely about the Mormon temples and the rituals done therein. It wasn't "too sacred" to mention, but didn't exist!

The LDS church must make up stuff in order to "fill in the blanks" they think exist in the Bible.
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Please then Explain the Kingdom of God for us...
 
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