💡Filthy Rag faith...

Sethproton

Well-known member
Faith is not works; you seem to be classifying faith as a work.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Yes that jumped out at me too that he categorized faith as a filthy rag in some situation. That is wrong as faith is never called that in the Bible
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Yes that jumped out at me too that he categorized faith as a filthy rag in some situation. That is wrong as faith is never called that in the Bible
Read the OP it’s explained. Your faith is the filthy rags mentioned in the OP. Since you are pelagian it describes your man made faith .

hope this helps !!!
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Man made faith?

Where did any writer of the Scriptures reference man made faith?

Faith can be misplaced. Often it is misplaced. Faith is easy to understand. Faith is relying upon another to do what they said they would do.
Man-Made faith is a Filthy-Rag when it's made before/without Grace...

Do you agree with that?
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
As an Assemblies of God, wouldn't you agree that the faith of a Satanist is a Filthy-Rag?
"Filthy Rags" HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH FAITH. They're only used in relationship to "Deeds" performed by religious fools, trying to establish their "Salvation" by works.

It's a misuse of Scripture. Since BIBLICAL FAITH is always revelatory, where would a "Satanist" even get any????
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
You're trying to lump all actions into one catalog. Our own efforts are filthy rags. Expressing faith is relying upon the actions of another. When that "other" can't help you.... then it is misplaced.

Having faith in Jesus Christ is NEVER a filthy rag. Some may claim it that end up having issues with sincerity and intent..... that is not ours to judge. God knows.
Hey look, we're close again :)

It will just get better with Time...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
"Filthy Rags" HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH FAITH. They're only used in relationship to trying to establish "Works Salvation." It's a misuse of Scripture. Since BIBLICAL FAITH is always revelatory, where would a "Satanist" even get any????
A Satanist can get faith from themselves; unless you're a Calvinist and believe Faith only comes from God ;)

As an Assembly of God, you don't think God looks at a Satanist's faith in Satan as filthy?

I did say this Thread is going to hurt y'all...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I've tried to get you see Grace apart of what you're claiming Grace is in your scenario. You're not working with me... :)

God is Gracious in the Gospel. God is Gracious in give Jesus Christ for all of humanity. Such Grace has meaning and imparts value. I do not believe that what you're calling "Grace" is necessary. A person can respond to the Gospel. Such a response leads to the fulfillment of Grace in Salvation. There are plenty of areas to see Grace BEFORE what you demand is necessary.
Are you a Traditionalist? Because I have a point prepared for TomL if he shows up...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I know you believe in regeneration prior to faith. That is where I have the issue. I'm just logically and systematic establishing that I'm right.. :)
Yeah, that's where I'm going with this. If anyone's faith is before or without God's Grace, you agree that faith is a Filthy-Rag; right? My OP speaks about Grace as you understand it, so without Grace as you understand it, faith must be a Filthy-Rag...

Sooner or later, you will agree. It will hurt and you'll be mad, but you will agree...
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
A Satanist can get faith from themselves; unless you're a Calvinist and believe Faith only comes from God
Romans 10:17 indicates where FAITH comes from. That ain't "Calvinist" - it just BIBLE.
As an Assembly of God, you don't think God looks at a Satanist's faith in Satan as filthy?
A "satanist's faith" isn't "Faith at all, filthy or otherwise. It's nothing more than Delusion.
I did say this Thread is going to hurt y'all...
But, in fact it hurt nothing.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
What do you mean? That is the confidence of a Christian that justification comes by faith, Can you explain?
Some think they are justified because they have faith that their faith causes God to justify. Our faith is a response, not something that forces God's hand.
As you stated, faith is confidence:
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Some think they are justified because they have faith that their faith causes God to justify. Our faith is a response, not something that forces God's hand.
As you stated, faith is confidence:
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Do you mean that we cannot tell God, "I believe so you must give me righteousness"? Different from us understanding that God promises to count our faith as righteousness.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Faith is never the same as the Biblical concept of filthy rags.
I think you should look for a different metaphor, as that one is in conflict with the Bible
Our righteousness is as Filthy-Rags. Faith in anything before, or without Grace, is filthy to God...
 
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