💡Filthy Rag faith...

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Is there such a thing as "Filthy-Rag faith?"

Isaiah 64:6 NIV; All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Your error is obvious and plain. Isaiah is referring to "OUR" righteousness. Filthy rags.

But true believers do not do their own righteousness; they rather deny themselves and rather do the righteousness OF GOD which He prepares.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Ephesians 2:10. NOT filthy rags but works God Himself prepared.


The Church teaches that everything we do before we're Saved is filthy due to our Sinfulness. I gave an example elsewhere of faith that could be considered a Filthy-Rag; that of a Jew believing in YHWH. Even plowing a field to feed the world is a Filthy-Rag in the sight of God...

If you believe your faith isn't a Filthy-Rag, why is your faith excluded from Isaiah's charge of Filthiness since this Faith is of your righteousness? I would say my Faith is excluded because the Grace of God prevened my Faith, in order to make a 'real' difference in my Salvation; a difference that makes my Faith spotless...


And Calvinists, remember I'm a 5-Pointer if you wonder about something I said; please give me the benefit of the doubt for now...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Isa 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

SO play your "Word games".
Are you mad at me?

Since we're all as an Unclean thing before we're Saved, everything we do is Unclean. Wouldn't it mean that a Jew's belief in YHWH is like a Filthy-Rag?
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Are you mad at me?

Since we're all as an Unclean thing before we're Saved, everything we do is Unclean. Wouldn't it mean that a Jew's belief in YHWH is like a Filthy-Rag?
Not mad, of course. I'm just not fond of using specific Biblical terminology in places that it simply doesn't belong.

I would NEVER express things that way. If it works for you, Oh Well.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Not mad, of course. I'm just not fond of using specific Biblical terminology in places that it simply doesn't belong.

I would NEVER express things that way. If it works for you, Oh Well.
Thanks. I do think it belongs in this Forum more than anywhere else; IE Total Depravity. All of our Fallen righteousness is as Filthy-Rags. It's why Grace needs to make a 'real' difference in our Salvation, so even things like Faith can be Clean...
 
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Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Thanks. I do think it belongs in this Forum more than anywhere us; IE Total Depravity. All of our Fallen righteousness is as Filthy-Rags. It's why Grace needs to make a 'real' difference in our Salvation, so even things like Faith can be Clean...
BIBLICAL FAITH (Heb 11:1, Rom 10:17) is ALWAYS clean, since it flows from HIM.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
If an ISRAELITE has Biblical FAITH, then It's God Given. Many of 'em do.
It's not Biblical Faith without Christ, right? Is the faith of Hasidic Jews who pray at the Wailing Wall a God-Given Faith, or are they a stench in his nostrils because their Righteousness is like a Filthy-Rag?
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
It's not Biblical Faith without Christ, right? Is the faith of Hasidic Jews who pray at the Wailing Wall a God-Given Faith, or are they a stench in his nostrils because their Righteousness is like a Filthy-Rag?
If an ISRAELITE has Biblical FAITH, then It's God Given. Many of 'em do.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
All of it. I need more please, because an Israelite without Christ has a Filthy-Rag Faith. Please, tell me you aren't saying that...
SImple!!! OLD Testament Israelites had faith in GOD'S PROMISED PROVISION of Salvation, but didn't really have a CLUE what that would actually be (although they did have the temple blood sacrifice as a clue). Only that He would do it. After death, they were apparently kept in a "Holding area" ("Abraham's bosom" according to Jesus) until the NEW COvenant was ratified in Jesus Blood, and they could be cleansed of their sin, and enter Heaven. Biblical FAITH, which is always revelatory from God begins with Conviction of SIN< and points to Calvary, where the NEW Covenant in Jesus BLOOD (His SIN OFFERING that actually CLEANSED instead of only "Hiding" sin for a season). EVERYBODY (Israelites and Gentiles) are "Without Christ" until they place their God-gifted FAITH in His SIN OFFERING to cleanse them. Israelites aren't any LESS Likely to have Faith in Jesus when He's presented to them under conviction of SIN, than any other false cult is.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
SImple!!! OLD Testament Israelites had faith in GOD'S PROMISED PROVISION of Salvation, but didn't really have a CLUE what that would actually be (although they did have the temple blood sacrifice as a clue). Only that He would do it. After death, they were apparently kept in a "Holding area" ("Abraham's bosom" according to Jesus) until the NEW COvenant was ratified in Jesus Blood, and they could be cleansed of their sin, and enter Heaven. Biblical FAITH, which is always revelatory from God begins with Conviction of SIN< and points to Calvary, where the NEW Covenant in Jesus BLOOD (His SIN OFFERING that actually CLEANSED instead of only "Hiding" sin for a season). EVERYBODY (Israelites and Gentiles) are "Without Christ" until they place their God-gifted FAITH in His SIN OFFERING to cleanse them. Israelites aren't any LESS Likely to have Faith in Jesus when He's presented to them under conviction of SIN, than any other false cult is.
But their CE faith in the Old Covenant is as a Filthy-Rag; right?
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
But their CE faith in the Old Covenant is as a Filthy-Rag; right?
Before the New Covenant it was effective, Afterwards, no so much.

However the TERM "Filthy rags" (specifically menstruous cloths) NEVER applies to FAITH, only to supposed deeds of righteousness - which really weren't. You seem to have a "FIlthy rag" fixation.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Before the New Covenant it was effective, Afterwards, no so much.

However the TERM "Filthy rags" (specifically menstruous cloths) NEVER applies to FAITH, only to supposed deeds of righteousness - which really weren't. You seem to have a "FIlthy rag" fixation.
Now we're getting somewhere. Would a Jew think you're being anti-Semitic if you told them they can't have a God-Given Faith because they exclude Jesus? Is it true that by the definition of Faith, they DO have faith in YHWH? Is the Belief they have as Filthy a Rag as a Muslim's faith is? Because it is 'of' their Self-righteousness, right?


 
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Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Now we're getting somewhere. Would a Jew think you're being anti-Semitic if you told them they can't have a God-Given Faith because they exclude Jesus?
Of course they would Their whole religious system is built around Jesus being PHONY. Not "Antisemitic" in the NAZI sense, but when you're told that your "Precious Religious beliefs" will send you to HELL, they're not likely to respond favorably to that information.
Is it true that by the definition of Faith, they DO have faith in YHWH? Is the Belief they have as Filthy a Rag as a Muslim's faith is? Because it is 'of' their Self-righteousness, right?
Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 
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