1 Cor. 15:26 "the last enemy that will be destroyed is death", what does that mean?

[CrowCross]

OF course because Jesus hasn't returned to render him entirely and forever powerless but if you are referring to his being symbolically chained in Rev 20 and the symbolic 1000 years of this age, this is referring only to him not having the power to deceive the nations like he did in the past before Jesus died and rose again and the gospel was preached worldwide.

Read it again, for he is chained only so that he cannot deceive the nations and which means he has no power to stop the church from preaching the gospel to the nations like he did in the OT times.

You ought to know it is symbolic anyhow, for Satan is a spirit and you cannot chain a spirit, it is only a symbol of the fact that Jesus spoiled his powers and now he only has power as allowed him by Jesus but he no longer has power to keep the nations in darkness of the truth of God like he did in the OT when only the Jews had the oracles of God given to them.


Of course and how does this contradict anything I said?

It doesn't.

You must not pay attention to anything that you read, for this was my point exactly.

That Christians die physically because although through the cross sin doesn't rule their hearts any longer, it still abides within their flesh and because of this, they will die physically until Jesus returns and puts the enemy of sin existing in their flesh under his feet forever.

This is why instead of Paul focusing on the "harpagmos" or rapture in this chapter, he focuses instead on their being changed in a moment and in the twinkling of an eye and which means that God's enemy of sin within their flesh is once and for all put under the feet of Jesus and made powerless so that they no longer have to die physically and can be taken or raptured into heaven as per 1 Thess. 4:13-18 also.


The change of 1 Corinthians 15:51-553 occurs when sin is completely and forever removed from their being so that they no longer have to die physically and all because Jesus has put all enemies associated with sin under his feet including the sin within the flesh of the believers.

The 1,000-year reign of Jesus is after the tribulation and before the Great White Throne Judgment of the wicked.

Man will still have a sinful nature and sin will be limited due to Satan being absent for the 1000 yrs.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

The 1,000-year reign of Jesus is after the tribulation and before the Great White Throne Judgment of the wicked.

No it isn't, and what you fail to see is that Revelation 20 is a brief picture of this ages, beginning at the cross where Jesus spoiled the principalities and powers through the cross and then what will end up happening at the end of this age, because of the apostasy of the church and which is what releases Satan from his restrictions to once again deceive the nations through the false doctrines of the apostate church.

This is what Jesus meant when he commissioned the church and said "whatsoever you bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven (by the authority of Jesus in heaven) and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven (by the authority of Jesus in heaven).

Man will still have a sinful nature and sin will be limited due to Satan being absent for the 1000 yrs.

And which would mean that all of Christ's enemies were not really put under his feet at his second coming then and that is the problem with your view on this.

It simply doesn't work with what Paul said but I do realize that you have a lot to be afraid of in going through the tribulation being your believing in and teaching false doctrine and that is why you would one to keep on in your fantasy land and false doctrine of a pre trib rapture.

Nevertheless you are pining away for something that isn't going to happen.

Furthermore, Jesus prayed to the Father that the church would not be removed but only kept from the evil in John 17 below.

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

The 1,000-year reign of Jesus is after the tribulation and before the Great White Throne Judgment of the wicked.

Man will still have a sinful nature and sin will be limited due to Satan being absent for the 1000 yrs.

You better get a hold of this truth, for although God can resurrect those who have already died at any time he wished, he cannot keep his saints from dying physically until he puts the enemy of sin still existing in their flesh under Christ's feet forever so that he can also put the enemy of death under his feet for them also.

This is not a problem for the saints who have already died, for their death is what separates them from the sin in their flesh but it is absolutely necessary for those who will still be alive and waiting for Jesus' second coming.

For there is no way that they could enter into heaven alive until this happens first and that is why Paul brings it into the picture in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and picking back up in verse 51-58.

 

[CrowCross]

No it isn't, and what you fail to see is that Revelation 20 is a brief picture of this ages, beginning at the cross where Jesus spoiled the principalities and powers through the cross and then what will end up happening at the end of this age, because of the apostasy of the church and which is what releases Satan from his restrictions to once again deceive the nations through the false doctrines of the apostate church.

This is what Jesus meant when he commissioned the church and said "whatsoever you bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven (by the authority of Jesus in heaven) and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven (by the authority of Jesus in heaven).


And which would mean that all of Christ's enemies were not really put under his feet at his second coming then and that is the problem with your view on this.

It simply doesn't work with what Paul said but I do realize that you have a lot to be afraid of in going through the tribulation being your believing in and teaching false doctrine and that is why you would one to keep on in your fantasy land and false doctrine of a pre trib rapture.

Nevertheless you are pining away for something that isn't going to happen.

Furthermore, Jesus prayed to the Father that the church would not be removed but only kept from the evil in John 17 below.

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

As said before....Satan is still present in this world. That alone disproves your doctrine.

the Bible tells us when Christ returns He will establish His kingdom. You do know Christ hasn't returned yet?

 

[Yahweh will increase]

As said before....Satan is still present in this world. That alone disproves your doctrine.

No it doesn't for as I said, you are taking Revelation 20 as totally literal and it is symbolism only to express that Satan was defeated at the cross and because of this also, the gospel message has gone out to the nations and whereas before this, only the Jews had the oracles of God given to them.

the Bible tells us when Christ returns He will establish His kingdom. You do know Christ hasn't returned yet?

Where does it actually say that the Kingdom is only established at his return?

That is false and the proof that it is false is seen in Jesus' own words to the Jews who were asking him about the promised kingdom in Luke 17 below.

Luke 17: 20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”



Now what Kingdom would those Jewish leaders have been asking Jesus about CC?


It would be the one that they read about in the OT and that was promised to them and are you going to deny this?


What did Jesus tell them? Did he tell them that it would be put on hold because they rejected him?

Not in your life, but he told them first that it would not come in the way that they expected it to, with what they could see with the natural eye but rather that it was already in their midst present tense.

Therefore, your idea that their Kingdom would only be established at his second coming is false, for it began at his first coming and he has been ruling it from Heaven ever since until he finally puts all enemies under his feet, read Psalm 110:1, for it very clearly reveals how their Kingdom would be ruled and where it would be ruled from also.


When Jesus returns, it will be the same Kingdom but the Kingdom will move from its mortal state of being to its eternal state of being and that is the only difference but it is the same Kingdom that was promised to the Jews and which not all but the majority of them rejected also.

Furthermore, it includes the believing Jews first and then also now the Gentiles as well and therefore God has not forsaken his people Israel but the promise is still good for all who will believe the gospel message and right up until the last of the Gentiles at the end of this age are also saved as well.

You need to understand that those Jewish leaders were asking him about when the Kingdom that was promised to the Jews would come and Jesus told them it was already in their midst and not something that they would see coming later and therefore they needed to repent and believe now and enter into it.

Notice, Jesus also said this also in Luke 16:16,The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


Again he was speaking to the Jews about that same promised Kingdom and he told them they needed to press into it by repentance and faith.

 

[CrowCross]

you are taking Revelation 20 as totally literal

Of course I am...it is literall It's mentioned like 6 times.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

As said before....Satan is still present in this world. That alone disproves your doctrine.

the Bible tells us when Christ returns He will establish His kingdom. You do know Christ hasn't returned yet?

And as I said before, you are wrong about Revelation 20 and what it truly refers to anyhow and by the way, it is very common in Revelation that John gives different pictures of the same events and he does this throughout the book also.

For instance the 7 seals and the seven Trumpets and the Seven bowl's of wrath are all pictures of the same single period of time but each focuses on slightly different aspects of that that period of time.

For instance the 7 Trumpets and Seven Bowls of wrath are the same 7 judgments of God with a slightly different focus on those same judgments and you can especially see this when comparing the sixth and seventh of both the trumpets and bowl's of wrath, for the sixth is focused of both are about the Euphrates River and the seventh of both are the end of the tribulation.

Then you have the picture of the the end blown up even further in chapter 19.


Also, in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 Paul reveals how the Day of the Lord like a thief in the night begins with sudden destruction that none of the un saved will be able to escape from and then 2 Peter 3:10-12 speaking of the same exact Day of the Lord tells us that it will end with this heaven and earth passing away with a great noise.

So suppose you explain how you are going to fit an extra to this age 1000 literal year kingdom for the Jews when the Tribulation for the ungodly will begin with sudden destruction and end with this heaven and earth being destroyed by fire?


Where are you going to fit it dude, for Jesus also revealed this day of the Lord as a thief in the night to be his second coming, so where could this extra to this age 1000 literal year kingdom for the Jews exist being this heaven and earth won't be here any longer at the end of the tribulation and GWT Judgment of God?


These are all serious problems with your idea about Revelation 20 and they prove that it is not what you believe it is also.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Of course I am...it is literall It's mentioned like 6 times.

The beast is mentioned probably more times than that and it isn't a literal beast and neither is the 144,000 a literal number or literal Jews and neither is the 1000 years of Revelation 20 a literal 1000 years or another age and Kingdom for the Jews who rejected the one that already exists and has from the the first coming as per Jesus himself in Luke 17.


So your building your eschatology on quicksand and the sooner you realize it the better it will be for you.


For as I have said, from what Paul said about the Day of the Lord as a thief in the night (Jesus' second coming) in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 and what Peter said about it in 2 Peter 3:10-12, it will be destruction for the unbelievers from the beginning unto the end and with this heaven and earth passing away with a great noise following the GWT Judgment of God at the end.

Sorry but there will be no place for your literal 1000 year Kingdom on this earth for the Jews, it simply doesn't work with what these to prophets of God revealed in the NT period.

 

[CrowCross]

For instance the 7 seals and the seven Trumpets and the Seven bowl's of wrath are all pictures of the same single period of time but each focuses on slightly different aspects of that that period of time.

Wrong. That point isn't even worth debating.

 

[CrowCross]

The beast is mentioned probably more times than that and it isn't a literal beast and neither is the 144,000 a literal number or literal Jews and neither is the 1000 years of Revelation 20 a literal 1000 years or another age and Kingdom for the Jews who rejected the one that already exists and has from the the first coming as per Jesus himself in Luke 17.


So your building your eschatology on quicksand and the sooner you realize it the better it will be for you.


For as I have said, from what Paul said about the Day of the Lord as a thief in the night (Jesus' second coming) in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 and what Peter said about it in 2 Peter 3:10-12, it will be destruction for the unbelievers from the beginning unto the end and with this heaven and earth passing away with a great noise following the GWT Judgment of God at the end.

Sorry but there will be no place for your literal 1000 year Kingdom on this earth for the Jews, it simply doesn't work with what these to prophets of God revealed in the NT period.

Long sigh...whatever.

NEXT

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Wrong. That point isn't even worth debating.

You mean you can't debate it because you know that I have a valid point.


For no matter how you want to look at the 1000 years, the fact still remains that everything Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15 is focused on the single future resurrection of the dead and the fact that those who are still alive at his coming will not have to die physically ever again.

Therefore when he says "the last enemy that will be destroyed is death, it has everything to do with the what he says below in the same chapter and context

1 Corinthians 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.


It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to know what the change will be either, for it is when the enemy of sin in the flesh of the believers who are alive and waiting for his coming is once and for all removed from them and put under he feet of Christ so that the last enemy of death can also be put under the feet of Christ.

For the sin in their flesh is the reason why they will have to die unless they are alive and waiting for Jesus when he appears in the sky and at which point he will put all enemies under his feet including the sin in the flesh of believers and also death that is caused by that sin.


It is really quite simple and straight to the point also and there is no way around it either and Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 very clearly tells us that when this happens, it will be the end when Jesus delivers the Kingdom up unto God even the Father period.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Long sigh...whatever.

NEXT

OK and by the way, Revelation chapter 9 reveals how Satan will be released from his restriction also, so let's look at it and see.


Revelation 9:

9 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2 When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3 And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes. 6 During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. 8 Their hair was like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. 9 They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. 10 They had tails with stingers, like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months. 11 They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer).



Now then, if we go back to the beginning of Revelation we will see what the "stars" were symbols of and it was the messengers to the 7 churches and which would refer therefore to the leaders of the seven churches who received the letters from Jesus sent to them by John.

By the way do notice that it doesn't say that the star came down from heaven but rather that it had fallen from heaven and which is very important.

So we see that it says "I saw a star that had fallen from heaven" and this represents the whole of the church leadership that had fallen into apostasy from their heavenly calling.


So how then did they get the key to loose the Devil and his angels from the abyss?


Remember again as I showed you before, Jesus himself gave keys of the Kingdom to the church leadership after his resurrection when he said unto them, "I give you the keys to the kingdom and whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven (by the authority of heaven) and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven (by the authority of heaven).

So when they fell into apostasy this responsibility became their irresponsibility and they allowed Satan freedom that he should never have been given and this is what Revelation 9 and 20 is referring to where it says he shall be loosed from his restriction to once again deceive the nations and all because of the apostate church leadership and their false doctrines.

The King of the Bottomless Pit is just another of many names for Satan himself because he is the King of all the forces of evil.

 

[CrowCross]

t is really quite simple and straight to the point also and there is no way around it either and Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 very clearly tells us that when this happens, it will be the end when Jesus delivers the Kingdom up unto God even the Father period.

No, Jesus returns twice....once in the air for the rapture...then the second time He actually comes to earth and stands on the Mt. of Olives.

The Bible tells us Jesus will return the same way He left....Did Jesus leave riding a white horse? (symbolic or literal). Acts 1 tells us that answer is NO.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

No, Jesus returns twice....once in the air for the rapture...then the second time He actually comes to earth and stands on the Mt. of Olives.

Where is your proof from the actual scriptures CC? You don't have any and neither Jesus himself nor Paul nor any other inspired writer of scripture ever revealed two comings of Jesus either.

Again in Luke 17 Jesus even warned of those who would say that he has returned here or there upon the earth and then he said his return instead would be just like lightning that lights up one end of heaven to the other and which means it would be a return not to the earth but in the sky within the clouds.

Sorry but the passage in Zechariah that you are speaking of where it says that in that day Yahweh will stand upon the Mt. of Olives and cause the earthquake mentioned is only figurative anthropomorphism for Yahweh's power that would cause the MT to Split in half and it is not referring to Jesus returning to the earth as you falsely believe and neither can you prove that it is either.

The Bible tells us Jesus will return the same way He left....Did Jesus leave riding a white horse? (symbolic or literal). Acts 1 tells us that answer is NO.

Sorry, but once again, when the angels said this, the first thing they said was "why are you men looking up into heaven", for Jesus was already in the clouds and then disappeared into heaven from their sight when the angels then said this.

He wasn't ascending at that point from the earth, for as it very clearly reveals, they were looking up into heaven when the angel said this.

Here read it again yourself.

Acts 1:

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.

11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you
stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”


Very clearly it had to do with how they saw him go into heaven from the clouds and not how they saw him ascend up into the clouds from the earth.



Therefore it is clear enough that what the angels meant was that Jesus would reappear from heaven within the clouds like they had seen him disappear from the clouds to go into heaven.

So once again, you have no evidence for your belief from the scriptures and therefore it is built on quicksand.



Once again, what Paul says about "death being put under the feet of Jesus" in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 has to do with the resurrection he is speaking of in that whole chapter and the one in which he said "we shall not all sleep (die physically) but we shall be changed, in a moment and in the twinkling of an eye and at the last trump".

 

[CrowCross]

Where is your proof from the actual scriptures CC? You don't have any and neither Jesus himself nor Paul nor any other inspired writer of scripture ever revealed two comings of Jesus either.

There's two accounts in the Bible of Jesus return...and there both different. Perhaps you now want to teach the Bible is contradicting itself.

 

[CrowCross]

Very clearly it had to do with how they saw him go into heaven from the clouds and not how they saw him ascend up into the clouds from the earth.

Jesus didn't ascend on a white horse. Or did I miss that part?

 

[Yahweh will increase]

There's two accounts in the Bible of Jesus return...and there both different. Perhaps you now want to teach the Bible is contradicting itself.

Where did Jesus speak of two different returns and where did Paul speak of two different returns or where did he speak of any other future resurrection but one?

You see this is another problem with your belief on this, for if there is a pre trib rapture that means there is also a pre trib resurrection and which would mean that there would have to be another after it and there is no such thing ever mentioned by either Jesus or his inspired NT writers of scripture.

For Paul already gave us the order of all the resurrections and the first was Christ himself and next was following right after his own which he called the first fruits and which are written about in Matthew 27:51-53 and which is also past tense and then there is those who belong to Christ at his Coming.

Notice again, "Paul says "after this those who are Christ's at his coming (singular future).

Therefore just like you do with everything in the Bible your apostate churches read things into passages that really don't exist in order to attempt to make them fit things that they have no true spiritual understanding of and because of this, they attempt to solve the problems they have by their own carnal human reasoning.


For instance, because Jesus said you don't know the day or hour but on the other hand we are told that certain things must happen before he returns and so you attempt to make this fit by coming up with two different returns of Jesus when neither Jesus himself nor any of the inspired writers of scripture ever taught any such thing.

What you seem to be ignorant of, is that when Jesus said these things to the disciples, they were still quite green in their knowledge of things and his point was that in the natural, they would would have no clue about when he would return and therefore it would seem as though he could return at any moment.

This is why he stressed that they must stay close to God and watch and pray so that it didn't overtake them as a thief in the night like it would naturally if they didn't stay close to God and watch and pray.

Paul even says this in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 below, here read it again yourself.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-5

5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.



Who is Paul speaking of when he says, "for you know very well that the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night"?

It isn't the church he is speaking this to because in the 4 verse he says this " But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief".


What you fail to understand, is that when Jesus was speaking to his disciples about his coming, they had very limited knowledge at that time about what would have to take place before Jesus would come and because of this he said "watch and pray for you do not know when your Lord will come" and thus he speaks of it as though it could be any time because that his how it would be for them with their lack of knowledge at that time.


However by the time Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5, the church had much better knowledge on these things than the disciples had when Jesus spoke what he did unto them.


Nevertheless, Jesus never said his coming was eminent and could happen at any time, for that wasn't what he meant but only that it would be like this if his disciples stayed ignorant about these things and didn't stay close to God and watch and pray so that they would grow in a better knowledge of it all.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Jesus didn't ascend on a white horse. Or did I miss that part?

He is not returning on a white horse either, for the white horse is only a symbolic figure to express that when he returns, he will be waging war with the spirit of antichrist and his kingdom of the wicked who will be persecuting his remnant church.

It is only a symbolic figure of him making war with the wicked of this world who have continued to reject the gospel and therefore are persecuting his church.

This is one of the biggest errors of your churches, for they don't understand that Revelation was written in cryptic language and with symbolic images that are not meant to be taken literally but are meant to express something of a spiritual nature beneath those images.

 

[CrowCross]

Where did Jesus speak of two different returns and where did Paul speak of two different returns or where did he speak of any other future resurrection but one?

The Bible speaks of two returns. If you want to deny it then that's your problem.

We see the resurrection of the saints...as they are present in heaven....or is that also allegorical?
We also see the resurrection of those who had no faith after the 1000 year reign.

 

[CrowCross]

He is not returning on a white horse either, for the white horse is only a symbolic figure to express that when he returns, he will be waging war with the spirit of antichrist and his kingdom of the wicked who will be persecuting his remnant church.

Jesus didn't ascend on a "symbolic" or literal white horse.

It is only a symbolic figure of him making war with the wicked of this world who have continued to reject the gospel and therefore are persecuting his church.

Jesus didn't make war with the wicked during His ascension....in other words Jesus didn't ascend in the way in which He left.

This is one of the biggest errors of your churches, for they don't understand that Revelation was written in cryptic language and with symbolic images that are not meant to be taken literally but are meant to express something of a spiritual nature beneath those images.

...and you oh wise one...have figured out the cryptic language and symbolic images?????