1 John 3:9 - Is it cannot "practice" sin, or cannot "commit" sin?

[CharismaticLady]

What is the difference in understanding and truth between us not practicinging sin, or not committing sin? Note the context of this chapter and what type of sin John is talking about 1 John 3:4 sins of lawlessness. What does changing to word to practice allow us to do. Of course, cannot commit sin has no other meaning.

 

[Our Lord's God]

What is the difference in understanding and truth between us not practicing sin, or not committing sin? Note the context of this chapter and what type of sin John is talking about 1 John 3:4 sins of lawlessness. What does changing to word to practice allow us to do. Of course, cannot commit sin has no other meaning.

John is talking about NEITHER.

Because the antichrist false prophets are in his sights, in contrast to true born of God believers, John is essentially doing the same thing in this context as Jesus was doing when he taught about good trees and bad trees in Matthew 7.

 

[CharismaticLady]

John is talking about NEITHER.

Because the antichrist false prophets are in his sights, in contrast to true born of God believers, John is essentially doing the same thing in this context as Jesus was doing when he taught about good trees and bad trees in Matthew 7.

1 John 3:4 (the context of verse 9)

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
9 No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God.

Which do you agree with? I actually do know what I'm talking about.

 

[Our Lord's God]

1 John 3:4 (the context of verse 9)

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

The Greek verb in question in verse 4 means "committing" or more literally "doing." The Greek verb tense doesn't refer to an event which has occurred but what is in the process of presently occuring. The idea is also not that a sin is occurring or that a sin has occurred.

The same thing occurs in verse 9. The verb there is "sinning." The Greek verb tense again refers to what is in the process of presently occurring.

The idea here is not that you see someone commit a sin and conclude he is not born again but that a process of sinning is not what you find with born again believers. John makes it perfectly clear in this same letter that it is quite possible for a true believer to commit a sin (1 John 2:1; 5:16-17) Therefore, reading verse 9 to mean that is impossible for a true believer to commit a sin is obviously wrong.

But you can ignore these facts if you want.

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
9 No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God.

I already told you this interpretation is just as wrong as the other interpretation which you are claiming. The issue isn't about commiting a single sin nor is it about "practicing" sin or "habitually" sinning. John is talking about something else.

Which do you agree with?

I already told you in my previous post: NEITHER.

John isn't talking about whether anyone commits a sin just as he is not talking about whether anyone commits an act of righteousness.

He is contrasting how you tell the difference between a fake believer and a true believer. You can see fake believers are those who are sinning and that is what they do. True believers are doing what is righteous and that is what they do.

I actually do know what I'm talking about.

Well then you won't be ignoring the Scriptural facts then will you?

 

[CharismaticLady]

True believers are doing what is righteous and that is what they do.

Yes, but do you understand why? That is the question.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Yes, but do you understand why? That is the question.

No that's a different question.

 

[cjab]

1 John 3:4 (the context of verse 9)

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
9 No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God.

Which do you agree with? I actually do know what I'm talking about.

The different words reflect different connotations put on the Greek verb ποιέω (make/construct/cause) by the translators, which reflect the substantial number English words available for use here, depending on the context.

In so far as "sin" itself defined to be a legal offence against divine law, the word "commit" is apposite, but in the context of 1 John 3:4, the translation "everyone commiting sin" for the initial phrase "Πᾶς ὁ ποιῶν τὴν ἁμαρτίαν" is really to pre-empt what follows (i.e. commit sin/lawlessness).

The Gk. word ἁμαρτία (harmatia) translated "sin" here doesn't directly translate to "sin" in English but to "missing the mark" or "loss due to not hitting the target" or "err" or "tragic flaw." In the Christian context the idea is one of moral lapse or fallibility, which is usually translated sin by extension, where sin bears the meaning of an offence against divine law. 1 John 3:4 distinguishes and yet connects the practice (disobedience/moral lapse) from the offence comitted (sin/lawlessness).

In English the word "practice" is often, but not always, reserved for immoral acts which are still legal. Thus a magician "practices the black arts" where black arts are not illegal but immoral. The criminal element is subdued. An adulterer practices adultery where there is no state sancton for adultery.

Here John is linking the practice of disobedience/moral lapse with the breaking of divine law.

So the more meaningful translation could be: "Everyone who practices immorality (or lapses from the faith) commits sin (lawlessness), for immorality (i.e. lapses from the faith) is sin (lawlessness).

 

[CharismaticLady]

(1 John 2:1; 5:16-17)

What is wrong is your interpretation of 1 John 2:1. But 1 John 3:9 is we CANNOT commit sins of lawlessness (vs. 4). I find it disturbing that you think we can steal, murder, commit adultery and lie, etc. after becoming born again?

A beliver:
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.

The rest of the world:
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

No one is exempt from believing in Jesus and His cleansing them from all sin.

1 John 5:16-17
sins unto death
sins not unto death.

I have pointed out to you 1 John 3:4 sins of lawlessness, the context of 1 John 3:9. Sins of lawlessness against the commandments of God are sins unto death. That is why we can't pray about them because Jesus is not going to suffer on a cross again. He did it once for our past sins, and given us the power to not sin again.

Sins not unto death are those are due to immature fruit of the Spirit as John 15 talk about. And 1 John 1:7 makes it clear that if we are walking in the Spirit and commit one of this type of trespass, the blood of Jesus is cleansing us of those trespasses. It is our duty to forgive our brethren their trespasses against us so ours will continue to be cleansed against us.

 

[Our Lord's God]

What is wrong is your interpretation of 1 John 2:1.

Who is John writing to? Who does he address in this verse? What does he say?

A beliver:
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.

The rest of the world:
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

See any problems with this claim of yours?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Chuckle!!!! It's "Don't SIN" - but when you do, you have an advocate when you confess your SIN.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Who is John writing to? Who does he address in this verse? What does he say?



See any problems with this claim of yours?

Does John say it is possible to not sin? Jesus takes away our sins unto death. Stop looking for loopholes and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

John wouldn't mention the whole world if "anyone" were not the whole unsaved world. Sins not unto death have a requirement seeing as Jesus isn't going to die again for future sins unto death. 2 Peter 1:9, Hebrews 10:26-31. The requirement for trespasses is Matthew 6:14-15.

Trespasses are due to immature fruit, but you can and should completely mature in the Spirit. 2 Peter 1:5-11

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Don't forget Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[Our Lord's God]

Does John say it is possible to not sin? Jesus takes away our sins unto death.

The question was whether it is impossible for born of God believers to sin.

John makes it quite clear that he knows it is possible.

John wouldn't mention the whole world if "anyone" were not the whole unsaved world.

You obviously need to work on your reading comprehension.

Sins not unto death have a requirement seeing as Jesus isn't going to die again for future sins unto death. 2 Peter 1:9, Hebrews 10:26-31. The requirement for trespasses is Matthew 6:14-15.

When you have a box of legos, go right ahead and stick them together however you like.

That's not how it works with Scripture verses.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The question was whether it is impossible for born of God believers to sin.

John makes it quite clear that he knows it is possible.

It looks as though you want to prove your willful sins are still forgiven, and want to overlook John's real objective in writing this book. Read chapter 3 if it is still unclear to you.

Peter, Paul and John's words are that only our past sins are forgiven, and we are cleansed from all unrighteousness. And in that they are talking about all our past sins no matter how many commandments from the sin nature from Satan. Jesus destroyed the work of the devil in us that are born again with a cleansed nature. Unfortunately not every "christian" is a "Christian. Some are so set on justifying their sins they make us doctrines of demons like OSAS and "past, present and future" sins are forgiven. Those doctrines preached from the pulpit fill the pews with itching ears, and they keep learning, but never arrive at the truth.

But I can testify that I have found that keeping myself pure, 1 John 3:3, is how I can stay connected to God and can still clearly hear the voice of God since 1977 when He blessed me with His overflowing Spirit, and know His only interpretation of scripture He has inspired as I prayed for Him to do and He answered. But some see what's new interpretation to them as building legos.

 

[Our Lord's God]

It looks as though you want to prove your willful sins are still forgiven, and want to overlook John's real objective in writing this book. Read chapter 3 if it is still unclear to you.

You seem to be making things up.

Peter, Paul and John's words are that only our past sins are forgiven, and we are cleansed from all unrighteousness. And in that they are talking about all our past sins no matter how many commandments from the sin nature from Satan. Jesus destroyed the work of the devil in us that are born again with a cleansed nature. Unfortunately not every "christian" is a "Christian. Some are so set on justifying their sins they make us doctrines of demons like OSAS and "past, present and future" sins are forgiven. Those doctrines preached from the pulpit fill the pews with itching ears, and they keep learning, but never arrive at the truth.

But I can testify that I have found that keeping myself pure, 1 John 3:3, is how I can stay connected to God and can still clearly hear the voice of God since 1977 when He blessed me with His overflowing Spirit, and know His only interpretation of scripture He has inspired as I prayed for Him to do and He answered.

The word He wants you to know isn't an "interpretation" of ink on paper but a person His son.

But some see what's new interpretation to them as building legos. So, no confirming from the Spirit, huh? Have you quenched the Spirit or have you never truly repented to be given the gift of Him first, and then the gift of hearing His voice? Do you have any of the gifts? Do you speak in tongues given to all who believe? Mark 16:16-18. It would be something you should be sure of. Acts 2:38.

Are you having some kind of party in your head?

John quite clearly believed it was possible for believers to commit a sin.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You seem to be making things up.



The word He wants you to know isn't an "interpretation" of ink on paper but a person His son.



Are you having some kind of party in your head?

John quite clearly believed it was possible for believers to commit a sin.

So, no confirming from the Spirit, huh? Have you quenched the Spirit or have you never truly repented to be given the gift of Him first, and then the gift of hearing His voice? Do you have any of the gifts? Do you speak in tongues given to all who believe? Mark 16:16-18. It would be something you should be sure of. Acts 2:38.

Looking at your signature: Are you vehemently opposed to rational discourse or something? shows what you are and think the word of God is foolishness. 1 Cor. 2:9-16. The key to understanding any book of the Bible is to read the whole book and see the objective and context, and you won't get messed up taking a verse out of context.

 

[Our Lord's God]

So, no confirming from the Spirit, huh? Have you quenched the Spirit or have you never truly repented to be given the gift of Him first, and then the gift of hearing His voice? Do you have any of the gifts? Do you speak in tongues given to all who believe? Mark 16:16-18. It would be something you should be sure of. Acts 2:38.

Looking at your signature: Are you vehemently opposed to rational discourse or something? shows what you are and think the word of God is foolishness. 1 Cor. 2:9-16. The key to understanding any book of the Bible is to read the whole book and see the objective and context, and you won't get messed up taking a verse out of context.

I guess you ARE having some kind of party in your head.

Let me know when it's over and you have time to rationally chat.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I guess you ARE having some kind of party in your head.

Let me know when it's over and you have time to rationally chat.

Sorry but I'm never going back to the old sin nature so you can understand what I'm teaching. My listeners are seekers of the truth.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Sorry but I'm never going back to the old sin nature so you can understand what I'm teaching. My listeners are seekers of the truth.

You are too busy listening to yourself now.

No born of God believer needs to ever willfully sin.

But that doesn't mean it is impossible for born of God believers to commit a sin.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You are too busy listening to yourself now.

No born of God believer needs to ever willfully sin.

But that doesn't mean it is impossible for born of God believers to commit a sin.

You say sin with no clarification. God lives in the details. Or don't you know.

 

[MMDAN]

1 John 3:9 (AMP) - No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.

Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament

Doeth no sin (αμαρτιαν ου ποιε). Linear present active indicative as in verse 1 John 3:4 (NAS) like αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8 (NAS) The child of God does not have the habit of sin.

His seed (σπερμα αυτου). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. 1 John 3:1 (NAS)

And he cannot sin (κα ου δυνατα αμαρτανειν). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were κα ου δυνατα αμαρτειν or αμαρτησα (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive αμαρτανειν can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8 (NAS) and αμαρτανων in verse 1 John 3:6 (NAS) For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see αμαρτητε and αμαρτη in 1 John 2:1. (NAS) A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of αμαρτανειν here. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1 (NAS) επιμενωμεν τη αμαρτια (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with αμαρτησωμεν in Romans 6:15 (NAS) (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).

1 John 3 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org