preacher4truth
Well-known member
He was never a Calvinist.
1 Timothy 2:4 - the Calvinist interpretation is hopelessly incoherent
- Thread starter squirrelyguy
- Start date
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Ultimately it does. We do not however know who the elect are, so we pray for all men without distinction. Only those who were chosn in Him will be saved, Ephesians 1:4.
Silliness, non sequitur, straw man nonsense. ^^^^
That is your conclusion based upon what? Based upon straw, it's a baseless conclusion. That is what you brought to the table, absolute irrational nothingness.
Nope as was stated
you may not know but you cannot argue all who are in authority are elect
Not at all
rather it is you comment which is nonsense
you do not believe all who are in a position of authority are elect for salvation
That is your conclusion based upon what? Based upon straw, it's a baseless conclusion. That is what you brought to the table, absolute irrational nothingness.
based on the verse which your denial are not a convincing counter reply
be honnest with your self
do you really believe all in authority are elect?
did you actually read?
no one stated you believe that
it was stated you cannot believe that
The phrase all in aurthority refers to all without exception who are in authority
Theo1689
Well-known member
Where do you see "without exception" in the text?!
how do you make all in authority some in authority
Theo1689
Well-known member
You're trying to justify ADDING words to Scripture.
You're rationalizing, rather than simply letting Scripture speak.
Once again, where do you see the phrase, "without exception" in the passage?
And if you can't show it, just man up and admit it.
Theo1689
Well-known member
Sorry, but you're SHIFTING the burden of proof.
YOU claimed that "all men in authority" ACTUALLY means, "all men in authority without exception".
I asked you to show me where it says, "without exception" in the passage,
and YOU NEVER ANSWERED the question.
Your responded with a rationalization, and then falsely put the words, "some in authority" in my mouth, WHICH I NEVER SAID.
So once again, show us in the PASSAGE where you see the phrase, "without exception".
All does not mean some no matter how badly your theology requires it
Basic meaning of All
used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing:
Online dictionary
all in authority would be the whole extent of those in authority
that is all without exception
Theo1689
Well-known member
I never said it did.
Now stop RUNNING AWAY from the question, and show us where you see the phrase, "without exception" in the passage.
The bottom line is that you ASSUME your theology out of whole cloth, while demanding we "prove" our theology to you, especially when we're not interested in converting you.
Double standards much?
This is why it's a waste of time interacting with you.
You want to shove your false theology down our throats, but refuse to prove it.
I gave you a basic definition
Basic meaning of All
used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing:
Online dictionary
why did you run from it?
what does the whole quantity mean?
and if you did not say it refers to some in authority
all that is left is all in authority
Theo1689
Well-known member
So you can't answer my question.
My point is made.
You're refuted.
Now continug running away.
Laughable
You cant even understand a basic definition
or what the whole extext of a thing means
or it appear the meaning of whole
...............................
I gave you a basic definition
Basic meaning of All
used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing:
Online dictionary
why did you run from it?
what does the whole quantity or extent mean?
do you not even understand the word whole
and if you did not say it refers to some in authority
all that is left is all in authority
your thinking is completely muddled
Theophilus
Well-known member
All former Calvinists go through a 12 step program . ? Those still in it are in the denial stage . Mormons who come out of their false teachings also go through a similar process . The same with Muslims . EDITED BY MOD--DIVISIVE
Last edited by a moderator:
12 step program eh
preacher4truth
Well-known member
He deludes you.
No, he's an impostor who had sockpuppet accounts playing both camps at the same time, and he's playing you and others now. He's apostatized from Faith alone as well, so what do you think?
We have a double negative here
I asked if you believe he was never a Calvinist and you said no
so you believe he was a calvinist?
preacher4truth
Well-known member
This is true, only those chosen (elected) in Christ before the foundation of the world will be saved, and none else. Ephesians 1:4; Romans 8:26ff &c.
But we should look closer at the text because it is not limited to praying for their salvation only. It includes supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving on behalf of kings and all in high positions.
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
No, it mentions all people as well.
Well, your "therefore" is askew, because you skipped the "all people" part of the text, thus all that follows is amiss because yur foundational argument is amiss.
So we have to ask why Paul mentions these types of peoples, kings, those who are in authority. But, again, you're missing the be made for "all people" that precedes kings, and those in authority. Apparently, Paul wants to remind Timothy to not just pray for the common person, but for the uncommon man as well. We have no idea who God has elected in His Son, so we pray for all, indiscriminately.
You're not even making a case.
We don't argue they are in the way we exegete the text. This is non sequitur.
Exactly correct.
It isn't, your argument is incoherent though.
It doesn't, it included all people as well.
You can think what you want to, but your thinking is amiss. Nothing in the text "requires" us to do what you're suggesting. Your imposing your idea onto the text.
My brother, a "Thus" would follow if you had handled the text correctly, but you haven't.
"All people." You missed it.
Only those chosen in Christ will be saved.
2 Timothy 2:15.
Sorry my friend, but your argument has failed and frankly it really is incoherent in spots. You didn't handle the text at hand well at all.