1 Timothy 2:5 verb tense

Dizerner

Well-known member
The English translations do just fine when you have a parallel New Testament like I have with 8 translations.

Net Bible has some interesting notes and is free.

For there is one God and one intermediary (1) between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human, (2) (1Ti 2:5 NET)

(1) tn Traditionally this word is rendered "mediator," but this conveys a wrong impression in contemporary English. Jesus was not a mediator, for example, who worked for compromise between opposing parties. Instead he was the only one able to go between man and God to enable them to have a relationship, but entirely on God's terms.
(2) tn Grk "one mediator between God and mankind, the human, Christ Jesus."
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Net Bible has some interesting notes and is free.

For there is one God and one intermediary (1) between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human, (2) (1Ti 2:5 NET)

(1) tn Traditionally this word is rendered "mediator," but this conveys a wrong impression in contemporary English. Jesus was not a mediator, for example, who worked for compromise between opposing parties. Instead he was the only one able to go between man and God to enable them to have a relationship, but entirely on God's terms.
(2) tn Grk "one mediator between God and mankind, the human, Christ Jesus."
Excellent if my memory is correct Dr Wallace is affiliated with the net bible as the senior editor but of course a certain poster here seems to know more than the best Greek grammarian in the world .
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Excellent if my memory is correct Dr Wallace is affiliated with the net bible as the senior editor but of course a certain poster here seems to know more than the best Greek grammarian in the world .

It's very easy to pose with just some terminology. I started a thread here awhile back and got completely jumped on by this clique that seems to constantly high five each other and is just obsessed with grammar minutiae that might disprove the Trinity.

Don't believe every claim!
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
Net Bible has some interesting notes and is free.

For there is one God and one intermediary (1) between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human, (2) (1Ti 2:5 NET)

(1) tn Traditionally this word is rendered "mediator," but this conveys a wrong impression in contemporary English. Jesus was not a mediator, for example, who worked for compromise between opposing parties. Instead he was the only one able to go between man and God to enable them to have a relationship, but entirely on God's terms.
(2) tn Grk "one mediator between God and mankind, the human, Christ Jesus."
Who do you identify as the one God?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Who do you identify as the one God?

I'm a fairly classical Trinitarian but with a few fundamental differences that would label me as a "Kenosis" heretic to many here.

I believe God is one being manifested in three separate relational identities, however I don't believe God is subject to logic, space or time, which... makes some things about God seem paradoxical to us. So I would define God as fundamentally unknowable yet able to reveal himself.

This one being is the three persons of the Father, Son and Spirit. I believe the Father's will is the origin of the Spirit and Son even though they share his attributes and being, and I don't believe the Spirit proceeds from the Son and Father as many church fathers surmised.

The big divergence for my particular theology is in my Christology particularly in the area of the incarnation and non-traditional understanding of the union of Christ's two natures. I believe in an actual ontological change in the being of God when the Word became flesh.

This is similar to some old beliefs labeled such things as Eutychianism.

I explore some thoughts on this subject in my first post on Carm's new forums here:

 

froggy

Active member
It's very easy to pose with just some terminology. I started a thread here awhile back and got completely jumped on by this clique that seems to constantly high five each other and is just obsessed with grammar minutiae that might disprove the Trinity.

Don't believe every claim!
Good luck with these guys. They embrace their cults. I am not a part of that clique
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
I'm a fairly classical Trinitarian but with a few fundamental differences that would label me as a "Kenosis" heretic to many here.

I believe God is one being manifested in three separate relational identities, however I don't believe God is subject to logic, space or time, which... makes some things about God seem paradoxical to us. So I would define God as fundamentally unknowable yet able to reveal himself.

This one being is the three persons of the Father, Son and Spirit. I believe the Father's will is the origin of the Spirit and Son even though they share his attributes and being, and I don't believe the Spirit proceeds from the Son and Father as many church fathers surmised.

The big divergence for my particular theology is in my Christology particularly in the area of the incarnation and non-traditional understanding of the union of Christ's two natures. I believe in an actual ontological change in the being of God when the Word became flesh.

This is similar to some old beliefs labeled such things as Eutychianism.

I explore some thoughts on this subject in my first post on Carm's new forums here:


This is what you believe?

One formulation is that Eutychianism stressed the unity of Christ's nature to such an extent that Christ's divinity consumed his humanity as the ocean consumes a drop of vinegar.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
This is what you believe?

No, I just made up all that reasoned and impassioned description for fun.

One formulation is that Eutychianism stressed the unity of Christ's nature to such an extent that Christ's divinity consumed his humanity as the ocean consumes a drop of vinegar.

I know. I said it's somewhat similar not exact. Not sure that would be my articulation exactly, but did have some discussion on whether Christ's divinity subsumes his humanity on the Trinity forum. Need to think and pray more on it.
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Why are you surprised ? It is all fables, whether "orthodox" or "heterodox."
Do you believe that 1 Timothy 2:5 teaches that Jesus is still our mediator and a man ?

And do you believe Hebrews 8:6 teaches Jesus is still our mediator from the Greek ?

This is what they are debating con another forum and which is why the questions are being asked here. A p I poster @Sethproton said all of our English translations were wrong in those passages.

Your comments would be appreciated. Thank you .
 

John Milton

Well-known member
Do you believe that 1 Timothy 2:5 teaches that Jesus is still our mediator and a man ?

And do you believe Hebrews 8:6 teaches Jesus is still our mediator from the Greek ?

This is what they are debating con another forum and which is why the questions are being asked here. A p I poster @Sethproton said all of our English translations were wrong in those passages.

Your comments would be appreciated. Thank you .
Like Roger, The Real John Milton doesn't know Greek either.
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
Like Roger, The Real John Milton doesn't know Greek either.

Do you believe that 1 Timothy 2:5 teaches that Jesus is still our mediator and a man ?

And do you believe Hebrews 8:6 teaches Jesus is still our mediator from the Greek ?

This is what they are debating con another forum and which is why the questions are being asked here. A p I poster @Sethproton said all of our English translations were wrong in those passages.

Your comments would be appreciated. Thank you .
Here is a verse that has not been discussed that might bear on part of the answer:



NASB 1995
Hebrews 9:17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives.
 

John Milton

Well-known member
Here is a verse that has not been discussed that might bear on part of the answer:



NASB 1995
Hebrews 9:17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives.
The point of my post was that there is no point discussing Greek with the two of you (Roger and The Real John Milton). Sorry you missed it.
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
No, I just made up all that reasoned and impassioned description for fun.

This is (what follows, not what you just said ) what you believe?

One formulation is that Eutychianism stressed the unity of Christ's nature to such an extent that Christ's divinity consumed his humanity as the ocean consumes a drop of vinegar.





I know. I said it's somewhat similar not exact. Not sure that would be my articulation exactly, but did have some discussion on whether Christ's divinity subsumes his humanity on the Trinity forum. Need to think and pray more on it.
The reason I asked is that it's based on Aristotle who did not have the concept of alloys or mixtures. For example a drop of wine put in a pool of water was transformed to water, not diluted with it.
 

Hark

Well-known member
I am interested in your answer as I am the person who stirred up conversation about Him as mediator.
I had not noticed, but it was interesting that you connected verse 5 to 6, as i read it I thought that six was a kind of explanation of 5.
Also, just in case in interests you, I was faulting some people for trying to make a doctrinal position based on an implied verb. basically they were saying since the English translation of 5 goes "There IS one mediator" that means He is currently mediating, and that the implied "is" in verse 5 is proof that He is still mediating.
I would be interested to hear your thoughts. And then allow me to question you if it goes over my head
When you apply what you are saying about 1 Timothy 2:5 being a current & present state He is in, we see this about prayer also.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. KJV

Many overlook this reference but I believe that this is what His role as a Mediator currently involves. When you see how whenever the Father says "yes" to an intercessions presented by Jesus, Jesus answers the prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Ephesians 5:20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Colossians 1:3We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,.... 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:...... 3:17And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

This is why no prayers are to be given to the Holy Spirit because that is not His role nor place to answer prayers.. That is why in all those apostate movements like slain in the spirit, holy laughter, Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade, & even asking the Holy Spirit for another baptism with evidence of tongues ( which does not comes with interpretation & thus assumed in error for private use when it is not of Him at all ) is why that is not the Holy Spirit answering because God is not the author of confusion.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

That is why all invitations in scripture & the real indwelling Holy Spirit points to the Son in coming to God the Father since the spirit of the antichrist would point believers away from the Son ( instead of Christ ) to their visitations for receiving of signs & wonders.

Jesus is the Bridegroom and that is the reason He is the only Mediator between us & the Father since there is no other way to approach God the Father in fellowship, prayer, & worship, except by the Lamb of God at that throne of grace..
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
Of course you think that; you can't pretend to be a Greek expert once people know you don't actually know it. Your secret's out.
I don't need to be an expert to exegete Greek better than you. You have not demonstrated the ability to exegete NT Greek to prove a point that you believe.

You have bit-picked and found fault with what others have exegeted without defending what you consider to be the correct view.

At least can't think of any.
 

John Milton

Well-known member
I don't need to be an expert to exegete Greek better than you. You have not demonstrated the ability to exegete NT Greek to prove a point that you believe.

You have bit-picked and found fault with what others have exegeted without defending what you consider to be the correct view.

At least can't think of any.
You can't even read Greek, much less exegete it.
 
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