10 reasons why the Bible can be trusted

See? You truly don't know what you're talking about, as I've been saying for years.
So, because I choose to do what I believe to be right - I don't know what I'm talking about?
The right thing to do is to suppress my own judgement and toe the company line in return for a reward?

Is that what you are saying, Howie?
Really?
 
You accused WiF of thinking that he is going to escape culpability for his life when it is, in fact, YOU who thinks that YOU are going to escape culpability for YOUR life {via Jesus}
My escape is based on the character and nature of Jesus and God, and their ability to carry through on their promises to those who engage on their terms.
Along with the previously established down-payment, deposit, pledge of guarantee, in giving his followers the Holy Spirit.

So, my salvation from sin and death is not based on my goodness. It's based on their faithfulness!

Implicit in your accusation is a criticism
A criticism of rejection of personal responsibility
Well, that's your belief.
Apparently, taking responsibility for our sin is to acknowledge that we have sinned, and turn to YHVH from our sin and place our trust in Jesus.

As stated in John 3:16-17.... God loves us so much that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever will believe in him will not perish but have everlasting life.

and as stated in Ephesians 2,


Eph 2:4-10 WEB 4 But God, being rich in mercy, for his great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus; 8 for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, that no one would boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.

This is entirely about God, not us.

As it's written in 1 Corinthians 1:29-31.

1Co 1:29-31 WEB 29 that no flesh should boast before God. 30 Because of him, you are in Christ Jesus, who was made to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 that, as it is written, “He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.”

God is the only one who is glorified and honored by our turning to Jesus from our sin.

we get to enjoy all the benefits and eternal life he's giving us.

There's times when I feel like a mercenary because of everything I'm receiving from him. I told this to some friends a few months ago and they reminded me of the following.


Psa 116:12-19 WEB 12 What will I give to Yahweh for all his benefits toward me? 13 I will take the cup of salvation, and call on Yahweh’s name. 14 I will pay my vows to Yahweh, yes, in the presence of all his people. 15 Precious in Yahweh’s sight is the death of his saints. 16 Yahweh, truly I am your servant. I am your servant, the son of your servant girl. You have freed me from my chains. 17 I will offer to you the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call on Yahweh’s name. 18 I will pay my vows to Yahweh, yes, in the presence of all his people, 19 in the courts of Yahweh’s house, in the middle of you, Jerusalem. Praise Yah!


So, it's not like he's not aware of your opinions on this!


Of course, rejecting personal responsibility SHOULD BE criticized

and YHVH says that the best way to take responsibility for our sin is to acknowledge that we have violated his laws, righteousness, holiness, and offended his greatness, and justice and we are deserving of death.

Then, to bring our sin to him, and according to 1 John 1,

1Jn 1:5-10 WEB 5 This is the message which we have heard from him and announce to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie and don’t tell the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son, cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we haven’t sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Is we acknowledge our sin, he is faithful and JUST to forgive our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

He guarantees he will, because he can JUSTLY do so!
And his justice is because of Jesus dying to take the full brunt of the penalty due our sin.

He can JUSTLY do so!



Only problem is that it's YOU who rejects personal responsibility - not WiF!

Nope. In accordance with YHVH's Word, his righteousness and justice, as it's written in the psalms,


Righteousness and Justice are the foundation of His Throne....

Jesus is able, ready and willing to pay the full penalty due the sin of every single human being who has ever lived and will ever live, all the way to the very last human to die.

He's the only one who can pay the full price. Because he is God, and is without a single sin.

Wrong again, Steve
So says the guy who worships himself and his ego.
It's actually an exceedingly great amount of self-love and respect for humanity that leads me to value integrity over eternity
Yep.
Well, considering that Jesus said

Mat 10:37-39 WEB 37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me isn’t worthy of me. 38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me isn’t worthy of me. 39 He who seeks his life will lose it; and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.

I'd say that it's not integrity you have, no matter how much you want to believe it is.
what you have is dedication to deliberate and willful self-destruction.
 
Link to me saying that.
I believe that it is immoral to consciously and purposefully, as God has done, inflict needless harm upon others
You believe that I don't know what I am talking about

I believe that the right thing to do is to remain true to my conviction
You believe that the right thing to do is to "repent of sin and believe"

What else is there to say?
 
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My escape
People who take personal responsibility don't utilize "escapes", Steve!


You accused WiF of thinking that he is going to escape culpability for his life when it is, in fact, YOU who thinks that YOU are going to escape culpability for YOUR life {via Jesus}

Implicit in your accusation is a criticism
A criticism of rejection of personal responsibility

Of course, rejecting personal responsibility SHOULD BE criticized

Only problem is that it's YOU who rejects personal responsibility - not WiF!


And THIS is why you lack self-awareness
 
I believe that it is immoral to consciously and purposefully, as God has done, inflict needless harm upon others
You believe that I don't know what I am talking about

I believe that the right thing to do is to remain true to my conviction
You believe that the right thing to do is to "repent of sin and believe"

What else is there to say?
See? You know nothing about Christianity.
 
See? You know nothing about Christianity.
I know Christianity perfectly well

I reject it

Deep down, I suspect that you, too, realize that it should be rejected, but you apparently, like SteveB, value eternity over integrity...
 
A two part (so far) video series describing why the Bible is trustworthy.
Number one seems to be, you can trust the Bible because the Bible says you can.
Number two is the old multiple authors one common message, trope.
So nothing yet that we haven't heard a hundred times before.
 
People who take personal responsibility don't utilize "escapes", Steve!
Actually it is.
Even Jesus talks about escaping the wrath of God to come.


Mat 23:33 You serpents, you offspring of vipers, how will you escape the judgment of Gehenna?

Luk 21:36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Rom 2:3 Do you think this, O man who judges those who practice such things, and do the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?

1Co 10:13 No temptation has taken you except what is common to man. God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able, but will with the temptation also make the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.




1Th 5:3 For when they are saying, “Peace and safety,” then sudden destruction will come on them, like birth pains on a pregnant woman. Then they will in no way escape.

Heb 2:3 how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation—which at the first having been spoken through the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard,


Heb 12:25 See that you don’t refuse him who speaks. For if they didn’t escape when they refused him who warned on the earth, how much more will we not escape who turn away from him who warns from heaven,

2Pe 1:4 by which he has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust.

2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilement of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in it and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

What you did here Tree is impose your own belief about what I said, and then jumped to conclusions that are not in fact the case.


by bringing my sin to God, and placing my trust in Jesus, i escape from my sin, and the judgment due sin.

I flee to God because he forgave me my sin.
According to the Bible, that's taking responsibility for our sin.

You accused WiF of thinking that he is going to escape culpability for his life when it is, in fact, YOU who thinks that YOU are going to escape culpability for YOUR life {via Jesus}
read above.

We escape our sin, and flee to God for salvation.

Implicit in your accusation is a criticism
A criticism of rejection of personal responsibility
nope, because he.... and you too... are rejecting personal responsibility for your own sin.

By ignoring what YHVH has accomplished on our behalf, by what you think is taking responsibility for your sin, you are destroying yourself. You lack the ability to carry the consequences.
I.e., you lack the wherewithal to "take personal responsibility" for your sin.
Everyone lacks the wherewithal.
Of course, rejecting personal responsibility SHOULD BE criticized
Glad you feel that way.
Why then do you think it's a good idea to do so?

Only problem is that it's YOU who rejects personal responsibility - not WiF!
Nope.
According to the Bible, the only way to take responsibility for our sin is to acknowledge our sin and turn to YHVH from our sin and place our trust in Jesus.
And THIS is why you lack self-awareness
This just demonstrates that you are completely dedicated to your deliberate and willful preconceptions and biases.
 
So nothing yet that we haven't heard a hundred times before.
Good.
Just wanted to be sure.

You're culpable for what you know.

This is the genuinely sad thing that you are choosing.

Luk 12:45-48 WEB 45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My lord delays his coming,’ and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and to be drunken, 46 then the lord of that servant will come in a day when he isn’t expecting him and in an hour that he doesn’t know, and will cut him in two, and place his portion with the unfaithful. 47 That servant who knew his lord’s will, and didn’t prepare nor do what he wanted, will be beaten with many stripes, 48 but he who didn’t know, and did things worthy of stripes, will be beaten with few stripes. To whomever much is given, of him will much be required; and to whom much was entrusted, of him more will be asked.


Don't worry though. Your unbelief that it's true will shield you from understanding that you will receive exactly what you want.
 
I know Christianity perfectly well

I reject it

Deep down, I suspect that you, too, realize that it should be rejected, but you apparently, like SteveB, value eternity over integrity...
That's the difference between your ego and actual integrity.
Integrity requires a correct basis for morality.

As your morality is not accurate, it's not actually integrity.
 
Good.
Just wanted to be sure.

You're culpable for what you know.

This is the genuinely sad thing that you are choosing.

Luk 12:45-48 WEB 45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My lord delays his coming,’ and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and to be drunken, 46 then the lord of that servant will come in a day when he isn’t expecting him and in an hour that he doesn’t know, and will cut him in two, and place his portion with the unfaithful. 47 That servant who knew his lord’s will, and didn’t prepare nor do what he wanted, will be beaten with many stripes, 48 but he who didn’t know, and did things worthy of stripes, will be beaten with few stripes. To whomever much is given, of him will much be required; and to whom much was entrusted, of him more will be asked.


Don't worry though. Your unbelief that it's true will shield you from understanding that you will receive exactly what you want.
I can't choose to believe something I don't.
I may be culpable for what I know, I don't know the Bible to be true. So if I'm punished for eternity because of that, your God isn't a just God.
 
I know Christianity perfectly well
No, you don't. You're completely wrong about it.

I reject it
I get that.

Deep down, I suspect that you, too, realize that it should be rejected, but you apparently, like SteveB, value eternity over integrity...
You have to say that. You don't understand.

To turn from God is to fall; to return to Him is to rise; to abide in Him is to live forever." Agustine of Hippo
 
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Given that stiggy is a Christian, then presumably stiggy should be interpreting scripture according to what God intended the scripture to mean. If you are saying that stiggy's interpretation is the opposite of what God intended, then you are telling a Christian the appropriate interpretation of Christian scripture.
Yes. I think they are interpreting Jesus words wrongly; I think Jesus was telling all his followers to sell their possessions and give their money to the poor. This is what Jesus did, this is what the disciples did.

Right, it seems likely to you, but how would you show it to be true? I mean anyone can just accuse someone else of bad faith, venality or self serving.
I quoted this already:

Luke 12:32 ‘Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

But it is a common sentiment in the gospels:

Luke 6:20 Looking at his disciples, he said:
‘Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God.
...
24 ‘But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.
Luke 16:25 ‘But Abraham replied, "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.’
...
28 Then Peter spoke up, “We have left everything to follow you!
Luke 14:33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

Seems pretty clear to me.

He might find that, but he might not. Why is the possibility of that interpretation grounds to reject his actual interpretation?
Because he does not want it to be true. Better to bury his head in the sand and keep hoping he can keep his house and his car, then to look at the text and think about what Jesus really wanted, and risk having to give them up.

Right. And he has an interpretation of that. Why is his interpretation wrong?
See Bible quotes above.

Seems slim grounds to reject. I mean, this is like a Christian saying "Atheists simply want to do whatever they like, unconstrained by any real morality or ethics. How do I know that? Well, it just seems likely, because superficial self serving motives are what causes people to believe things."
See it in its wider context. SteveB repeatedly tells us to blindly believe. If we will only believe what the Bible says, then.... well, we will believe what the Bible says.

So when he tells us to do as Jesus said, it seems appropriate to point out that actually SteveB does not do that - at least, not when inconvenient.

Does that prove Christianity is wrong? Of course not! But it certainly explains to SteveB why I will not be doing as he tells me,
 
Yes. I think they are interpreting Jesus words wrongly; I think Jesus was telling all his followers to sell their possessions and give their money to the poor. This is what Jesus did, this is what the disciples did.

And yet they did not, as thoroughly shown in this thread, especially in the OP:


33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor.

Just curious. When you hallucinated the word "all" there, did you hallucinate it in Aramaic, Greek or English?

So when he tells us to do as Jesus said, it seems appropriate to point out that actually SteveB does not do that

Steve lives in Nevada, USA and you live in England if I'm not mistaken. How did you manage to legally obtain his financial records in your self righteous quest?
 
Yes. I think they are interpreting Jesus words wrongly; I think Jesus was telling all his followers to sell their possessions and give their money to the poor. This is what Jesus did, this is what the disciples did.


I quoted this already:

Luke 12:32 ‘Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

But it is a common sentiment in the gospels:

Luke 6:20 Looking at his disciples, he said:
‘Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God.
...
24 ‘But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.
Luke 16:25 ‘But Abraham replied, "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.’
...
28 Then Peter spoke up, “We have left everything to follow you!
Luke 14:33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

Seems pretty clear to me.
To you, yes, but not to those who have to live by it and to whom it probably means more than to you. So why is your particular take on it informative of theirs?
Because he does not want it to be true. Better to bury his head in the sand and keep hoping he can keep his house and his car, then to look at the text and think about what Jesus really wanted, and risk having to give them up.
You don't know any of that. Isn't it a bit personal? Now, mind you, SteveB tells you your motives all the time, and he and I have gone back and forth when he's told me mine, so I understand tit for tat is fair play, but at the end of the day if its just atheist vs Christian ping pong who wins?
See Bible quotes above.


See it in its wider context. SteveB repeatedly tells us to blindly believe. If we will only believe what the Bible says, then.... well, we will believe what the Bible says.
See above about living inside an ethos. It's very easy for someone outside it to look in, pick one part of it, and say "You're all hypocrits if you don't prioritise things the way I would.." This is like listening to Christians tell Jews how they REALLY should follow the laws of Moses. Or for that matter, Muslims telling Christians how they should all live in poverty, or Christians telling Muslims how they have to kill and persecute unbelievers. It's just polemic. Why make your atheism into one more creed that needs apology and countermissionary work?
So when he tells us to do as Jesus said, it seems appropriate to point out that actually SteveB does not do that - at least, not when inconvenient.
Again, ascribing motive. OK
Does that prove Christianity is wrong? Of course not! But it certainly explains to SteveB why I will not be doing as he tells me,
It's your explanation, but SteveB has his. Who will win? Tune in next week...
 
Yes. I think they are interpreting Jesus words wrongly; I think Jesus was telling all his followers to sell their possessions and give their money to the poor. This is what Jesus did, this is what the disciples did.


I quoted this already:

Luke 12:32 ‘Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

But it is a common sentiment in the gospels:

Luke 6:20 Looking at his disciples, he said:
‘Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God.
...
24 ‘But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.
Luke 16:25 ‘But Abraham replied, "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.’
...
28 Then Peter spoke up, “We have left everything to follow you!
Luke 14:33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

Seems pretty clear to me.


Because he does not want it to be true. Better to bury his head in the sand and keep hoping he can keep his house and his car, then to look at the text and think about what Jesus really wanted, and risk having to give them up.


See Bible quotes above.


See it in its wider context. SteveB repeatedly tells us to blindly believe. If we will only believe what the Bible says, then.... well, we will believe what the Bible says.

So when he tells us to do as Jesus said, it seems appropriate to point out that actually SteveB does not do that - at least, not when inconvenient.

Does that prove Christianity is wrong? Of course not! But it certainly explains to SteveB why I will not be doing as he tells me,
His head is buried in the sand. ^^^
 
I can't choose to believe something I don't.
You can choose to ask, seek, and knock.
Or, in Biblical terms, metanoia.

Change your mind about how you see it.

YHVH says he'll give you a heart to know him.
this isn't something that you have to work at. He gives it, freely.
He further stated that we will find him in the day we seek him with a whole heart. This isn't something that you are going to learn about in arguments and debates.


If you don't want to know in this life, then you'll learn the hard way when you can no longer do anything about it.

I may be culpable for what I know, I don't know the Bible to be true. So if I'm punished for eternity because of that, your God isn't a just God.
So, in your opinion, you can disregard finding out for yourself the veracity of the Bible, and go on with your life, living as you please, and then blame God for your own disregard and laziness?

Must be nice to be so privileged.
Where can I get some of that level of privilege?

Considering you just said that you've already heard before what the videos talk about, you already have been told that the bible is true and you are blowing it off as irrelevant.
Saying that God is lying, because you don't want to know.
 
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