10 reasons why the Bible can be trusted

A two part (so far) video series describing why the Bible is trustworthy.


The first argument is that there are many places in the Bible where wisdom and intelligence are praised; therefore the Bible encourages its readers to use their intelligence in examining the Bible itself; and therefore, the Bible must stand up well to such examination.

The initial claim is true, but those conclusions do not follow from it.
 
The first argument is that there are many places in the Bible where wisdom and intelligence are praised; therefore the Bible encourages its readers to use their intelligence in examining the Bible itself; and therefore, the Bible must stand up well to such examination.

The initial claim is true, but those conclusions do not follow from it.

What do you think wisdom is?
 
OK. So practical understanding and awareness.

How do you think that is acquired?
Some combination of an inborn capacity, and experience. That is, given three people who go through roughly similar experiences, one may be pretty much incapable of learning from them -- i.e., incapable of showing wisdom -- another may very quickly and surely learn, and the third may be somewhere in between. That difference is presumably due to to differences in inborn capacities.

(By the way, though I'm fine with answering these kinds of questions, they don't seem relevant to the video you recommended, or my criticism of that video.)
 
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Some combination of an inborn capacity, and experience. That is, given three people who go through roughly similar experiences, one may be pretty much incapable of learning from them -- i.e., incapable of showing wisdom -- another may very quickly and surely learn, and the third may be somewhere in between. That difference is presumably due to to differences in inborn capacities.

(By the way, though I'm fine with answering these kinds of questions, they don't seem relevant to the video you recommended, or my criticism of that video.)
You're the one who said

The first argument is that there are many places in the Bible where wisdom and intelligence are praised; therefore the Bible encourages its readers to use their intelligence in examining the Bible itself; and therefore, the Bible must stand up well to such examination.

The initial claim is true, but those conclusions do not follow from it.


The most effective way to know if what the Bible says is true is to do what Jesus says.

Joh 14:23 WEB Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

I.e., wisdom.

In another place,

Pro 1:7 WEB The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of knowledge, but the foolish despise wisdom and instruction.

Wisdom Personified....

Pro 8:1-36 WEB 1 Doesn’t wisdom cry out? Doesn’t understanding raise her voice? 2 On the top of high places by the way, where the paths meet, she stands. 3 Beside the gates, at the entry of the city, at the entry doors, she cries aloud: 4 “I call to you men! I send my voice to the sons of mankind. 5 You simple, understand prudence! You fools, be of an understanding heart! 6 Hear, for I will speak excellent things. The opening of my lips is for right things. 7 For my mouth speaks truth. Wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness. There is nothing crooked or perverse in them. 9 They are all plain to him who understands, right to those who find knowledge. 10 Receive my instruction rather than silver, knowledge rather than choice gold. 11 For wisdom is better than rubies. All the things that may be desired can’t be compared to it. 12 “I, wisdom, have made prudence my dwelling. Find out knowledge and discretion. 13 The fear of Yahweh is to hate evil. I hate pride, arrogance, the evil way, and the perverse mouth. 14 Counsel and sound knowledge are mine. I have understanding and power. 15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. 16 By me princes rule, nobles, and all the righteous rulers of the earth. 17 I love those who love me. Those who seek me diligently will find me. 18 With me are riches, honor, enduring wealth, and prosperity. 19 My fruit is better than gold, yes, than fine gold, my yield than choice silver. 20 I walk in the way of righteousness, in the middle of the paths of justice, 21 that I may give wealth to those who love me. I fill their treasuries. 22 “Yahweh possessed me in the beginning of his work, before his deeds of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, before the earth existed. 24 When there were no depths, I was born, when there were no springs abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was born; 26 while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the beginning of the dust of the world. 27 When he established the heavens, I was there. When he set a circle on the surface of the deep, 28 when he established the clouds above, when the springs of the deep became strong, 29 when he gave to the sea its boundary, that the waters should not violate his commandment, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, 30 then I was the craftsman by his side. I was a delight day by day, always rejoicing before him, 31 rejoicing in his whole world. My delight was with the sons of men. 32 “Now therefore, my sons, listen to me, for blessed are those who keep my ways. 33 Hear instruction, and be wise. Don’t refuse it. 34 Blessed is the man who hears me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at my door posts. 35 For whoever finds me finds life, and will obtain favor from Yahweh. 36 But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul. All those who hate me love death.”
 
You're the one who said

The first argument is that there are many places in the Bible where wisdom and intelligence are praised; therefore the Bible encourages its readers to use their intelligence in examining the Bible itself; and therefore, the Bible must stand up well to such examination.

The initial claim is true, but those conclusions do not follow from it.


The most effective way to know if what the Bible says is true is to do what Jesus says. [. . .]

You posted a video about how to know that the Bible is true; I listened to the video, and gave my reason for thinking the video was wrong; and your response is not ‘no, your criticism isn’t valid, because,..’ but to say, in effect, ‘never mind what the video says, I can tell you how to know that the Bible is true.’

So why should anybody respond to any of the links you provide, if you Ignore any criticism of the linked videos or articles and switch to arguments which weren’t in them at all?
 
You posted a video about how to know that the Bible is true; I listened to the video, and gave my reason for thinking the video was wrong; and your response is not ‘no, your criticism isn’t valid, because,..’ but to say, in effect, ‘never mind what the video says, I can tell you how to know that the Bible is true.’
No.
I didn't say to ignore the video.
You're the one who talked about wisdom and knowledge.
You correctly identified the nature of wisdom.
I simply showed you that wisdom is the basis for knowing God.
Not the wisdom of men. But the wisdom of God himself.
If you're too afraid to gain eternal wisdom, then that's a you thing.
So why should anybody respond to any of the links you provide, if you Ignore any criticism of the linked videos or articles and switch to arguments which weren’t in them at all?
Sounds like you're bothered that your own opinions are criticizing you.
 
One last try: why should anybody respond to any of the links you provide, if you Ignore any criticism of the linked videos or articles and switch to arguments which weren’t in them at all?
 
Considering the content of our conversation over the past decade, I'd say the one you find the worst.
So you cannot pick one yourself?

I cannot decide if that is because you are afraid it will be shot down if we actually get into the details... or you have not actually bothered to watch the video.
 
The most effective way to know if what the Bible says is true is to do what Jesus says.

Joh 14:23 WEB Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Jesus said:

Luke 12:32 ‘Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Have YOU done what Jesus says? Have you sold your possessions and given your money to the poor?

Or are you still living in a nice house, driving a nice car?
 
One last try: why should
Why should.....
i don't know.
wlhy should you?
i don't recall saying anything about should have to respond.
perhaps this is the problem.
you think there's a should have to do anything about it.
it's been your life since birth. If you don't care about yourself, you don't have to do a darn thing about it.
anybody respond to any of the links you provide, if you Ignore any criticism of the linked videos or articles and switch to arguments which weren’t in them at all?
I don't ignore the criticisms at all.

What makes you think that I'm supposed to take your criticisms with anything greater than an atheist's disregard for the truths they don't care to know the veracity of?

The one thing that I've consistently observed on this forum is that atheists reject everything they don't like, and for some strange reason, actually act like their criticisms are the epitome of objective reality, that they, and they alone are privy to.

So.... why should anybody respond to anything I've posted, and will likely continue to post for years to come...

That's a question for you to decide.



I simply presented materials to 10 reasons why the Bible can be trusted.


As I've said before, if you really think that your criticisms are valid and need to be taken more seriously than you think I'm taking them, Don is a guy who loves answering such questions, and has had a call in radio show.



How important do you believe your criticisms to be?

I think that if you really believe them to be valid and as legitimate as you're expressing, you should talk to him about them. Especially since it's his video you're criticizing.
 
So you cannot pick one yourself?
What if I previously had, and taking into account the decade's worth of discussions we've had, I'm pretty sure that the one you think is the worst, is the one I'd say is the best!
Or, we're you hoping I'd ignore 10+ years of conversing, and reading your biases and preconceptions, along with your contempt, and disgust for the truth, and utterly forget, so you could feel better about yourself?
I cannot decide if that is because you are afraid it will be shot down if we actually get into the details... or you have not actually bothered to watch the video.
🤣
Your inability, and unwillingness to make a decision is a you thing.
 
Jesus said:

Luke 12:32 ‘Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Have YOU done what Jesus says? Have you sold your possessions and given your money to the poor?
Actually I did. That was 43 years ago.

Or are you still living in a nice house, driving a nice car?
🤣
So, the problem you're having here is that you think those things are evil, but you're so desperate to make a show and appearance before others, you are ignoring the fact that once this life is done, there's eternity to deal with?

Luk 16:14-17 WEB 14 The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they scoffed at him. 15 He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts. For that which is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God. 16 “The law and the prophets were until John. From that time the Good News of God’s Kingdom is preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tiny stroke of a pen in the law to fall.


what you continue to ignore, due to what I can only guess is your dedication to your deliberate and willful ignorance is that you are placing yourself in a very dangerous situation.

Psa 50:16-23 WEB 16 But to the wicked God says, “What right do you have to declare my statutes, that you have taken my covenant on your lips, 17 since you hate instruction, and throw my words behind you? 18 When you saw a thief, you consented with him, and have participated with adulterers. 19 “You give your mouth to evil. Your tongue frames deceit. 20 You sit and speak against your brother. You slander your own mother’s son. 21 You have done these things, and I kept silent. You thought that I was just like you. I will rebuke you, and accuse you in front of your eyes. 22 “Now consider this, you who forget God, lest I tear you into pieces, and there be no one to deliver. 23 Whoever offers the sacrifice of thanksgiving glorifies me, and prepares his way so that I will show God’s salvation to him.”

It's a foolish path you're choosing. The question is why you would actually want to spend your eternity in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur forever.
what makes you think that your unbelief will exclude you from experiencing Truth?
 
What if I previously had, and taking into account the decade's worth of discussions we've had, I'm pretty sure that the one you think is the worst, is the one I'd say is the best!
What if you had?

Does that stop you telling us what it is?

Or, we're you hoping I'd ignore 10+ years of conversing, and reading your biases and preconceptions, along with your contempt, and disgust for the truth, and utterly forget, so you could feel better about yourself?
I am hoping - against all the odds - that we can have a rational discussion.

When you use phrases like "your contempt, and disgust for the truth" it becomes apparent that that is not possible with you.

Actually I did. That was 43 years ago.
I do not believe you. I am sure you still live in a nice house, with a nice car, and a big pension, rationalising why you should ignore what Jesus told you to do.

So, the problem you're having here is that you think those things are evil, but you're so desperate to make a show and appearance before others, you are ignoring the fact that once this life is done, there's eternity to deal with?
I can assure you I do not think living in a nice house, with a nice car, and a big pension is evil. I think it is very sensible, if you have the means to do so.

The point here is that it contradicts what Jesus told his followers to do. And you claim to follow Jesus.
 
I do not believe you. I am sure you still live in a nice house, with a nice car, and a big pension, rationalising why you should ignore what Jesus told you to do.

What's it to you? What business is it of yours? Why can't you keep your self righteous snooping nose out of the personal life of others?
 
What if you had?
Indeed.
Does that stop you telling us what it is?
Nope.
I am hoping - against all the odds - that we can have a rational discussion.
I didn't even have to go against all odds to have hope that this was doable.
Jesus did after all tell us that the things which are impossible for men, are easily accomplished by God.

Your ongoing dedication to your deliberate and willful ignorance is the only thing preventing it.
When you use phrases like "your contempt, and disgust for the truth" it becomes apparent that that is not possible with you.
10+ years of experience with your posts.

II the problem as I'm seeing it is that what you consider rational is the least rational thing on earth.

YHVH plainly stated that his thoughts, and his ways are beyond the heavens.

he further stated that he's chosen to not use the rationality of men to make himself knowable. But instead, he's chosen the foolishness of preaching the cross of Jesus to make sure that we actually know God.
but, you continue to dismiss this, and believe that man's rational logic will achieve the truth.




I do not believe you. I am sure you still live in a nice house, with a nice car, and a big pension, rationalising why you should ignore what Jesus told you to do.
🤣
That you think your belief is a necessity is what I find amusing.
Tell me why your belief that I'm telling you the truth is important to you.



I can assure you I do not think living in a nice house, with a nice car, and a big pension is evil.
Apparently you do. Otherwise you wouldn't be demanding that i tell you if i had.
I think it is very sensible, if you have the means to do so.
Pity you don't actually think that knowing YHVH on his terms is sensible. Especially when he states he'll give us a heart to know him, and Jesus says that eternal life is knowing God and Jesus whom God sent.


The point here is that it contradicts what Jesus told his followers to do. And you claim to follow Jesus.
 
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