15+ Dead In Texas School Shooting; 18-y.o. student Salvador Ramos Identified As Shooter

glenlogie

Well-known member
I’m not imagining sinister motivations.

I’m just predicting the disingenuous responses of people that can’t defend their position and have to rely on troll tactics.

My “predictions” always turn out to be true.

I’ve never “predicted” one of you would adjust your beliefs based on new information.
Then how come you have never won the lottery
 

Gondwanaland

Well-known member
I am not selling mandatory or not.
Same.

And here's the thing. Anyone with a working brain knows that the problem isn't guns.

When I was a kiddo, gun ownership was even higher than it is today. If you took a visit to my high school, essentially every student's pickup truck in the parking lot would have a gun in it, usually on the back on a gun rack. My wife's high school (mine was too poor and rural so we just went to the local abandoned quarry) had a shooting range right next to the gym, and a shooting club. You could easily expect to see kids on the bus (those without their own car) carrying their rifles on days the shooting club met.

I bought and owned my first gun at age 10 (bought with money I earned from helping out neighbors). I fired my first rifle at age 7 (my dad's rifle).

I could order a rifle or shotgun from the Montgomery Ward catalog. When my dad was a tiny kiddo, you could order a Colt Machine Gun from the SEARS Roebuck catalog.

The problem isn't guns, or gun ownership. The problem is.... what has changed? What is different? I suspect a lot of it has to do with the emptying of psych wards in the 60s and 70s, and subsequent reproduction. I suspect another big player is the rise of 24/7 media focusing on and giving a platform for shooters who want to do something that gets them remembered and plastered over the news. And sadly, I suspect the single parenthood increase has played a role as well.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
Opinions on morality change as well. Slavery is immoral? Tell that to the Athenians. We think it is now, but moral views have changed. Which is one of the reasons why we KNOW that it is subjective.
So if I understand you correctly you're saying that because a group of people decide to do something, like engage in slavery, then that makes the act moral. Is that what you staying here?
 

Carol

Well-known member
I will school you on Scripture. Your interpretation is speculation and is NOT supported by the rest of Scripture. He wasn't testing the man. He was answering his question of how he(the rich man) can attain eternal life.

Keep reading-

"With man this is impossible...."

Im sure the wolves in sheep's clothing that have infiltrated the Church would agree with your interpretation. Since they too would not give up most of their wealth.

What does that have to do with Jesus being a capitalist vs socialist? lol Try to stay on subject.
 

Backup

Well-known member
If I hold the opinion that it's wrong, and you think it is objectively wrong, what is the difference?

We are both against rape, aren't we?
We will both oppose it and uphold the mechanisms to prevent and punish it, won't we?
If they believe their is some cosmic, inaccessible, set of objective rules out there, they could hold the wrong position.

You can’t be wrong about your opinion, but their opinion might not align with the cosmic, objective one. How would we know?

The Bible certainly doesn’t condemn rape or slavery, but most of us are of the opinion they are wrong.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
Is this thread hosting a convention of mind readers?
The problem with leftists is they actually think their beliefs make things real. Like the whole man thing. If someone with XX chromosomes sincerely believes they are a man then their chromosomes change to XY. If they say Christianity bis nonsense they actually believe that makes it nonsense. It's a very child like view of the world. They are an astronaut if they believe they are. Imagination is a wonderful thing.
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
Same.

And here's the thing. Anyone with a working brain knows that the problem isn't guns.

When I was a kiddo, gun ownership was even higher than it is today. If you took a visit to my high school, essentially every student's pickup truck in the parking lot would have a gun in it, usually on the back on a gun rack. My wife's high school (mine was too poor and rural so we just went to the local abandoned quarry) had a shooting range right next to the gym, and a shooting club. You could easily expect to see kids on the bus (those without their own car) carrying their rifles on days the shooting club met.

I bought and owned my first gun at age 10 (bought with money I earned from helping out neighbors). I fired my first rifle at age 7 (my dad's rifle).

I could order a rifle or shotgun from the Montgomery Ward catalog. When my dad was a tiny kiddo, you could order a Colt Machine Gun from the SEARS Roebuck catalog.

The problem isn't guns, or gun ownership. The problem is.... what has changed? What is different? I suspect a lot of it has to do with the emptying of psych wards in the 60s and 70s, and subsequent reproduction. I suspect another big player is the rise of 24/7 media focusing on and giving a platform for shooters who want to do something that gets them remembered and plastered over the news. And sadly, I suspect the single parenthood increase has played a role as well.
True, when the government started giving more money to woman without a man in the house, they destroyed the black family. An old style Democrat liberal wrote a book on the issue. Today the democratic party would tar and feather the man.
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
If they believe their is some cosmic, inaccessible, set of objective rules out there, they could hold the wrong position.

You can’t be wrong about your opinion, but their opinion might not align with the cosmic, objective one. How would we know?

The Bible certainly doesn’t condemn rape or slavery, but most of us are of the opinion they are wrong.
Read the story of Tamar to see the effects of rape.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
So if I understand you correctly you're saying that because a group of people decide to do something, like engage in slavery, then that makes the act moral. Is that what you staying here?
You don't understand me correctly. Saying "makes the act moral" has nothing remotely to do with what I said. An act is not moral or immoral in and of itself. It is what people think about it that makes it moral or immoral in their minds. In the minds of ancient peoples, there was nothing wrong with slavery, unless presumably you happened to be a slave. In the minds of modern people, slavery is immoral. What has changed is not the act of slavery but the moral attitude of people towards it. The same goes with any moral question you care to raise. Nowhere is there any evidence of "actual" objective, measurable morality being applied.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
You don't understand me correctly. Saying "makes the act moral" has nothing remotely to do with what I said. An act is not moral or immoral in and of itself. It is what people think about it that makes it moral or immoral in their minds. In the minds of ancient peoples, there was nothing wrong with slavery, unless presumably you happened to be a slave. In the minds of modern people, slavery is immoral. What has changed is not the act of slavery but the moral attitude of people towards it. The same goes with any moral question you care to raise. Nowhere is there any evidence of "actual" objective, measurable morality being applied.
So AGAIN you're saying killing Jews may not be immoral if people think or isn't. Yes it no?
 

vibise

Well-known member
Same.

And here's the thing. Anyone with a working brain knows that the problem isn't guns.

When I was a kiddo, gun ownership was even higher than it is today. If you took a visit to my high school, essentially every student's pickup truck in the parking lot would have a gun in it, usually on the back on a gun rack. My wife's high school (mine was too poor and rural so we just went to the local abandoned quarry) had a shooting range right next to the gym, and a shooting club. You could easily expect to see kids on the bus (those without their own car) carrying their rifles on days the shooting club met.

I bought and owned my first gun at age 10 (bought with money I earned from helping out neighbors). I fired my first rifle at age 7 (my dad's rifle).

I could order a rifle or shotgun from the Montgomery Ward catalog. When my dad was a tiny kiddo, you could order a Colt Machine Gun from the SEARS Roebuck catalog.

The problem isn't guns, or gun ownership. The problem is.... what has changed? What is different? I suspect a lot of it has to do with the emptying of psych wards in the 60s and 70s, and subsequent reproduction. I suspect another big player is the rise of 24/7 media focusing on and giving a platform for shooters who want to do something that gets them remembered and plastered over the news. And sadly, I suspect the single parenthood increase has played a role as well.
The childhood you describe is locality specific. My childhood was entirely gun free. The only person in our neighborhood with a gun was a hunter who offered roasts to neighbors.

A recent article in the NYT presented statistics on household gun ownership by state. In Wyoming it is a whopping 80%, whereas in NJ where I grew up it is 20%, although it was clearly much less than that where I grew up.

The problem is guns. There are more gun deaths and injuries in areas with more guns and lax gun laws.
There is no data to support your implication that the problem is mental health.
As for giving a platform for shooters, I notice that the stories on the Texas shooting avoid naming the shooter and I have yet to see a picture of him.
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
If they believe their is some cosmic, inaccessible, set of objective rules out there, they could hold the wrong position.

You can’t be wrong about your opinion, but their opinion might not align with the cosmic, objective one. How would we know?

The Bible certainly doesn’t condemn rape or slavery, but most of us are of the opinion they are wrong.

A more informed report of what the Bible says on rape.
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
The childhood you describe is locality specific. My childhood was entirely gun free. The only person in our neighborhood with a gun was a hunter who offered roasts to neighbors.

A recent article in the NYT presented statistics on household gun ownership by state. In Wyoming it is a whopping 80%, whereas in NJ where I grew up it is 20%, although it was clearly much less than that where I grew up.

The problem is guns. There are more gun deaths and injuries in areas with more guns and lax gun laws.
There is no data to support your implication that the problem is mental health.
As for giving a platform for shooters, I notice that the stories on the Texas shooting avoid naming the shooter and I have yet to see a picture of him.
A gun cannot do anything by itself, so your rant is nonsrnse.
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
The childhood you describe is locality specific. My childhood was entirely gun free. The only person in our neighborhood with a gun was a hunter who offered roasts to neighbors.

A recent article in the NYT presented statistics on household gun ownership by state. In Wyoming it is a whopping 80%, whereas in NJ where I grew up it is 20%, although it was clearly much less than that where I grew up.

The problem is guns. There are more gun deaths and injuries in areas with more guns and lax gun laws.
There is no data to support your implication that the problem is mental health.
As for giving a platform for shooters, I notice that the stories on the Texas shooting avoid naming the shooter and I have yet to see a picture of him.
They have named him.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
The childhood you describe is locality specific. My childhood was entirely gun free. The only person in our neighborhood with a gun was a hunter who offered roasts to neighbors.

A recent article in the NYT presented statistics on household gun ownership by state. In Wyoming it is a whopping 80%, whereas in NJ where I grew up it is 20%, although it was clearly much less than that where I grew up.

The problem is guns. There are more gun deaths and injuries in areas with more guns and lax gun laws.
There is no data to support your implication that the problem is mental health.
As for giving a platform for shooters, I notice that the stories on the Texas shooting avoid naming the shooter and I have yet to see a picture of him.
Is gun crime worse in New Jersey or in Wyoming? We need to know if your contention is more guns equals more crime
 
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