15+ Dead In Texas School Shooting; 18-y.o. student Salvador Ramos Identified As Shooter

Yakuda

Well-known member
My life was not given to me - there was no me to give it to before I was alive.

I'm not some blank computer that had "life" installed onto it, or something; as long as there has been a me, it has been alive.

Then how does this relate to objective vs subjective morality?
No but youre blank now
 

Gondwanaland

Well-known member
I have relatives in Kansas, and most of them have guns. It is a different gun culture than the one I am used to.
Okay? And?
Well there are more guns in the US now than there were in the 50s and 60s, so I guess that is due to people like you who maintain private arsenals.
Yet there are less gun owners as a percentage. Which completely destroys your argument.
While mass murders get most of the media attention, they make up a small percentage of gun deaths.
Some do. Most of the ones in Chicago don't tend to get media attention. But yes, they make up a small percentage of deaths, yet people like you use them to push gun laws that haven onthing to do with them.
And gun deaths in WY are about 7X higher than in NJ, as I pointed out in another post with a link.

I'd be willing to bet most of that is suicides, which were dishonestly counted as 'gun deaths'.

Now do the homicide rates (not just the gun homicide rates, assuming you're providing those and not lumping in accidental deaths and suicides) and come back to us.....

But again, you claimed the problem wrt mass shootings was guns, so we should necessarily expect to see MORE mass shootings in Wyoming than in New Jersey. Yet we don't. So you shot your own argument in the foot.
I just saw an article about crazy conspiracy theories about the Texas massacre. A big one is that it was a false flag operation involving crisis actors, much like Alex Jones has been claiming about Sandy Hook.
That's nice, I don't particularly follow those things.
The other one is that the Texas shooter is transgender,
Is that a conspiracy theory? Or someone making a guess? What makes that a conspiracy theory? DOes that term even mean anything anymore these days?
which serves to combine two of the things conservatives hate most - gun control and transgenders, and is also completely false. So it seems you are getting your news from RW conspiracy sites these days?
I'm not getting my 'news' anywhere of the sort, I stated what I have heard some people on the internet arguing, in response to your statement about not seeing images of the shooter. I've seen pics of the shooter on CNN, MSNBC, etc., as has most other folks. Some of those folks have postulated based on those images, and I noted I didn't particlarly agree. Thanks for your dishonesty though.
 

Backup

Well-known member
Homicide rate by all means

Wy. 2.8
NJ. 3.6

People in NJ kill with what they have

So New Jersey is more murderous than Wyoming (almost certainly because of population density) yet Wyoming has more firearm deaths per capita? New Jerry has strong gun laws and Wyoming weak ones?

Pretty strong argument for more gun control.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
By instituting punishment for those caught doing so by law enforcement.

The same way anything is made illegal: society decides to punish it.
What is I was getting at is, if they want to, lets say make gun ownership illegal. There is a process put in place in the Constitution to do so. A constitutional amendment. You will need 37 states to ratify. Good luck
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
So New Jersey is more murderous than Wyoming (almost certainly because of population density) yet Wyoming has more firearm deaths per capita? New Jerry has strong gun laws and Wyoming weak ones?

Pretty strong argument for more gun control.
So you do not know about the concept of per capita. Thanks for demonstrating your ignorance.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
"An act is not moral or immoral in and of itself. It is what people think about it that makes it moral or immoral in their minds"

I am genuinely trying to understand your point of view so I beg your patience. You wrote the about statement did you not? So from that statement it seems you are staying no act is inherently moral or immoral it's only one or the other in people minds. Is that accurate?
Yes. Morality is a subjective judgement, not an objective property.
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
So New Jersey is more murderous than Wyoming (almost certainly because of population density) yet Wyoming has more firearm deaths per capita? New Jerry has strong gun laws and Wyoming weak ones?

Pretty strong argument for more gun control.
And the numbers refer to homicide by any method.
 

Gondwanaland

Well-known member
There is no data to support your implication that the problem is mental health.
Since you ignored this part of my post, I'll single this one out and repeat:
There is. Here's one of your own liberal buddies talking about mass shootings and mental health. Take their advice: https://www.thedailybeast.com/stop-denying-that-mass-shooters-can-be-mentally-ill

And a bonus:


Prior research suggests that approximately two-thirds of public mass shooters exhibit signs of mental illness. This study analyzed whether that means there are 2 psychological types of perpetrators (some mentally ill, some mentally healthy), or whether almost all perpetrators are likely to have mental health problems. Using a database of 171 public mass shooters who attacked in the United States from 1966 to 2019, we tested for statistically significant differences between perpetrators with and without diagnoses or signs of mental illness. We also closely examined the most lethal perpetrators since 2012, and the most “mentally healthy” perpetrators according to prior coding. Correlates of mental illness were approximately equally common among perpetrators, whether they were believed to be mentally ill or not. Of the variables we examined, data availability provided the best explanation for coding of mental illness, not any trait or life experience. Further evidence suggested that even the most “mentally healthy” perpetrators could be recoded as having signs of mental illness or suicidality, or were clear outliers, or may not qualify as public mass shooters. The most lethal perpetrators exhibited signs of mental illness or suicidal intent (or both) in all cases. When people engage in concerning behaviors that suggest a mass shooting risk, their mental health should be carefully assessed alongside other warning signs.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
What is I was getting at is, if they want to, lets say make gun ownership illegal. There is a process put in place in the Constitution to do so. A constitutional amendment. You will need 37 states to ratify. Good luck
If thirty-seven states did ratify, the "god-given" right to own guns would be gone.

The god of the Bible... overpowered by thirty-seven US states.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Since you ignored this part of my post, I'll single this one out and repeat:
There is. Here's one of your own liberal buddies talking about mass shootings and mental health. Take their advice: https://www.thedailybeast.com/stop-denying-that-mass-shooters-can-be-mentally-ill

And a bonus:

This is a problem that occurs nowhere else in the world with anything like the frequency it does in the US. Gun laws in the US are unlike those anywhere else in the world. Are you suggesting that mental health in the US is also like nowhere else in the world?
 

Backup

Well-known member
No it doesn't. All those black on black shootings in Chicago...perfectly fine with the left. They hate black people anyway so.....
Chicago is like #26th among murderous cities.

You people just repeat right-wing talking points without even thinking about them.

Tell us how San Francisco is such a horrible place to live, again.
 
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