15+ Dead In Texas School Shooting; 18-y.o. student Salvador Ramos Identified As Shooter

mikeT

Active member
Rights are only meaningful if society recognizes those rights and has a way of enforcing them. Which means there must be laws that encode rights.
Rights can be granted by one individual to another, so while society doesn't necessarily have to recognize those rights, you're correct in saying the rights are meaningful if there's no enforcement. If I give you the right to hunt in the woods on my property, I can still kick you out the minute I see you - and that right will have effectively been meaningless/nonexistent.

Rights have three components: a right giver, a right receiver, and a mechanism of enforcement. If one of these is missing, the right doesn't exist.

I give Authentic Nouveau the right to get a job, but since there's no way for me to ensure he's employed, that "right" I gave him was meaningless. et al.
 

inertia

Super Member
Agreed. The problem is the economic system we live under, greatly limits funding for things like this.

It's really a matter of prioritization and budgets. What's more important?

And the dangers of privatized institutions are real, where people are over medicated, experimented on.......

Reference please

Mental illness whether violent or non-violent should be treated.

I believe rehabilitation is better than punishment.

I can't agree with you more.

___
 

BMS

Well-known member
Opinions on morality change as well. Slavery is immoral? Tell that to the Athenians. We think it is now, but moral views have changed. Which is one of the reasons why we KNOW that it is subjective.
There are more slaves now than ever... though now for sex rather than cotton
 

mikeT

Active member
Rights are only meaningful if society recognizes those rights and has a way of enforcing them. Which means there must be laws that encode rights.
Rights can be granted by one individual to another, so while society doesn't necessarily have to recognize those rights, you're correct in saying the rights are aren't meaningful if there's no enforcement. If I give you the right to hunt in the woods on my property, I can still kick you out the minute I see you - and that right will have effectively been meaningless/nonexistent.

Rights have three components: a right giver, a right receiver, and a mechanism of enforcement. If one of these is missing, the right doesn't exist.

I give Authentic Nouveau the right to get a job, but since there's no way for me to ensure he's employed, that "right" I gave him was meaningless. et al.
Sorry for tagging you twice for the same post, @vibise . I had to fix a serious typo.
 

kiwimacnz

Member
Since when did the blood of someone killed by a car become an acceptable price for you to own a car.
A car is designed as a method of transportation. If a death occurs from the use of a car it is almost always accidental, the only reason a gun has for existence is to kill something and it seems to me quite clearly that you have decided that your ability to kill something is far more important than somebody else’s life. That said, your comparison is inane. You are seriously trying to compare an accidental by-product of a vehicle’s existence with the main reason for something else. This is exactly the kind of stupidity I have come to expect from Americans at this kind of time and the reason I say you should not be allowed anything more dangerous than a fork.
 

wiseones2cents

Well-known member
It's really a matter of prioritization and budgets. What's more important?

To the people that budget? Money, unless it was their kids in danger.

They never seem to have money for anything, but for wars and such where they can profit, they seem to pull billions out of the air.
Reference please

Its called history. The horror stories(and movies) are many. Things like shock therapy were greatly abused.....
I can't agree with you more.

Good.
 

BMS

Well-known member
If they believe their is some cosmic, inaccessible, set of objective rules out there, they could hold the wrong position.

You can’t be wrong about your opinion, but their opinion might not align with the cosmic, objective one. How would we know?

The Bible certainly doesn’t condemn rape or slavery, but most of us are of the opinion they are wrong.
The Bible does condemn rape and slavery in the NT. I and others have provided the quotes and citations. The OT does, and the context of that has been given, but why would you say the Bible doesnt when you have seen it does?
For example, the NT says do not become slaves of men and if you are a slave try and obtain your freedom.
There is no mention of rape in the NT, its all faithful loving union of man and woman. Indeed it says the husband's and wife's very bodies are to be honoured by each other.
 

BMS

Well-known member
The childhood you describe is locality specific. My childhood was entirely gun free. The only person in our neighborhood with a gun was a hunter who offered roasts to neighbors.

A recent article in the NYT presented statistics on household gun ownership by state. In Wyoming it is a whopping 80%, whereas in NJ where I grew up it is 20%, although it was clearly much less than that where I grew up.

The problem is guns. There are more gun deaths and injuries in areas with more guns and lax gun laws.
There is no data to support your implication that the problem is mental health.
As for giving a platform for shooters, I notice that the stories on the Texas shooting avoid naming the shooter and I have yet to see a picture of him.
The mass terrorist killings in the UK have not involved guns but bombs and cars being driven at people. Bomb ownership is banned and car ownership is controlled.
So it isnt just the gun ownership knee jerk reaction you are having.
Its education that is needed.
Gondwanaland has thankfully pointed out some root causes.
 

BMS

Well-known member
It only takes some experience in life to know that the best situation for anyone, especially a child, is s loving biological father and mother. This has been undermined through the recent decades to a point where even biological sex of the mother and father is being eradicated.

When the left squeels about these tragedies it should know the root causes.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
You are closed minded anti guns
Anti-things that are designed to kill people?
You bet.

If I could wave a magic wand and remove guns from every civilian in the US, leaving them solely in the hands of law enforcement forever, I would. The question is, why wouldn't everybody?

"I need to be able to defend myself."

From what? No bad guys have guns any more.
 

BMS

Well-known member
A car is designed as a method of transportation. If a death occurs from the use of a car it is almost always accidental, the only reason a gun has for existence is to kill something and it seems to me quite clearly that you have decided that your ability to kill something is far more important than somebody else’s life. That said, your comparison is inane. You are seriously trying to compare an accidental by-product of a vehicle’s existence with the main reason for something else. This is exactly the kind of stupidity I have come to expect from Americans at this kind of time and the reason I say you should not be allowed anything more dangerous than a fork.
As you see that isn't entirely correct. That you call it inane is alarming. It is correct that the car is designed for transportation whilst the gun is designed to kill, and that almost all car deaths are accidental, but cars have increasingly been used in terrorist attacks which means whatever the intended use of the implement, it can still be misused.

But there was this argument already with the biological anatomy, namely us pointing out the anatomy of man and woman is designed for each other in sexual intercourse yet the likes of your side were saying it can be used for whatever. So in that respect the car can be used for intentionally killing people
 

Backup

Well-known member
The Bible does condemn rape and slavery in the NT. I and others have provided the quotes and citations. The OT does, and the context of that has been given, but why would you say the Bible doesnt when you have seen it does?
no it doesn’t doesn’t

your “slave to sin” stretch was so amazingly desperate it just illustrates how there isn’t any condemnation of slavery or you would have picked a better example


must have missed your anti-rape verses. Shame. I could use a good laugh


For example, the NT says do not become slaves of men and if you are a slave try and obtain your freedom.
OK, I read that in context and you couldn’t be more wrong

There is no mention of rape in the NT, its all faithful loving union of man and woman. Indeed it says the husband's and wife's very bodies are to be honoured by each other.
yeah, no condemnation of rape

Everyone in the history of the world has know rape is bad except the authors of the New Testament
 

DeSanto

Super Member
Very disturbing. Happened in a town 85 miles west of San Antonio. Apparently the shooter (a high schooler who went to the elementary school to shoot it up) killed his grandmother before going to the school and shooting. He is now dead (I don't believe he is included in the number) after a gunfight with police.

Sounds like he had a handgun and possibly used a rifle as well.


Takes a lot of evil to go shoot up 2-4th graders. Takes a real special sort of evil to go do it after you murdered your own grandmother. Sadly someone this filled with evil and hatred (and likely mental issues) is going to figure out a way to take out his rage on the world, no matter what.

Also, apparently many of the victims are kids of Border Patrol agents, which could potentially be a coincidence or perhaps could be something of a motive (given the shooter's ethnicity), we'll have to see.
I have questions.

I read the boy moved in with his grandmother in March. Where did he live before that?

Where do his parents live?

I read he bought two, very expensive, rifles days before the shooting.

Where did he get the money for them?
 
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