1John 5:1 regeneration before faith

fltom

Well-known member
It doesn't suprise me that people who proof-text try to spin things to make it look like a good thing, and try to demonize people who rightly reject proof-texting.

I haven't done a detailed study, but it seems to me that a common form of "proof-texting" is quoting a portion of a verse, and arbitrarily assigning a meaning that is contradictory or foreign to the context.

A good example would be when Arminians quote 2 Pet. 3:9, "God is not willing for any to perish", and RUN AWAY from the fact that the CONTEXT is "beloved" (v.8), and "us-ward" (v. 9, KJV)
Unfortunately for your theology

the beloved are saved Christians and not in the need of repentance and certainly not in danger of perishing

you have violated your own concern about context
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
At this point, it is enough to look at the possibility that the accusation of "proof text" is simply a dodge to avoid truth.
Regardless of who is saying it.
The reason being that if you do not provide other verses that help to understand the verse in question, then "proof text" is simply a dodge, or an expression of a lazy attack.

Okay, you look at the possibility let's us know what you find. We are all waiting with abated breath for your 10 Paige treatise on "proof texting".
 

fltom

Well-known member
At this point, it is enough to look at the possibility that the accusation of "proof text" is simply a dodge to avoid truth.
Regardless of who is saying it.
The reason being that if you do not provide other verses that help to understand the verse in question, then "proof text" is simply a dodge, or an expression of a lazy attack.
Yep one of a number of ways Calvinists here avoid responding to arguments against their theology
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Sorry but you are in denial

regeneration imparts life


when a physically living man is stated to receive life that can only be spiritual life

so faith precedes regeneration



Faith before regeneration (life)

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
It says no such thing. Sorry. Try these 👉🤓
 

fltom

Well-known member
It says no such thing. Sorry. Try these 👉🤓
more Calvinist bald denial

Sorry but you are in denial

regeneration imparts life


when a physically living man is stated to receive life that can only be spiritual life

so faith precedes regeneration



Faith before regeneration (life)

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

notice how he addresses nothing and just offers unsupported (bald) denials
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
It does not say faith precedes regeneration.

You did not choose physical nor do you choose to live Spiritually. Your order is backwards
 

fltom

Well-known member
It does not say faith precedes regeneration.

You did not choose physical nor do you choose to live Spiritually. Your order is backwards
Sorry many scriptures you cannot address refute you

See my comments on regeneration here

 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Sorry many scriptures you cannot address refute you

See my comments on regeneration here

No matter how hard you try it does not say faith precedes regeneration. Game, set and match. Thanks for playing
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
No matter how hard you try it does not say faith precedes regeneration. Game, set and match. Thanks for playing
It's as they say; word salad. He responded to me by saying it's not a matter of Grace prevening Faith, but is a matter of Faith prevening Regeneration. Well, if Grace makes a real difference before Faith; does it matter if we call it's Effect Regeneration or not? When he does not call Grace's Effect Regeneration, but it does Regenerate; he has a 'Double Regeneration'; IE Regeneration before and after Faith. He doesn't like me using terms like Prevenient Faith, so he probably won't like me using a term like Double Regeneration. Let's say that the Effect of Regeneration can be symbolized with a Circle in Shorthand. In Provisionism we can see the "Effect" of Regeneration before and after Faith; but only the effect after Faith is "named" Regeneration. But a rose by any other name smells as sweet. So the Effect of Prevenient Grace could also use a Circle as Shorthand; because it has the same Effect as Regeneration. It could look like this; "⭕ Faith ⭕". A Provisionist would say it looks like this; "grace, Faith, Regeneration". They would give grace a different Shorthand symbol because they say it's Effect is not Regeneration; perhaps it would look like "❓Faith ⭕". They would say grace is not Efficacious. Perhaps they would say Grace is Efficacious, if even so slightly; this means Prevenient Grace enables us as Regeneration enables us. The Enabling "Effect" is the same as Regenerations "Effect"; it unlocks the gate that keeps us in...

Lol, Double Regeneration...
 
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guest1

Guest
regeneration is a made up doctrine by calvinism. Titus 3:5 and Matthew 19:28 the only 2 usages that use the actual BIBLICAL WORD refutes the false claims of calvinism and regeneration. Biblical regeneration has nothing to to with calvinism. oops

Your Truly, Team Truth !

hope this helps !!!
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
It does not say faith precedes regeneration.

You did not choose physical nor do you choose to live Spiritually. Your order is backwards
why are you refusing to acknowledge that regeneration imparts life? As long as you talk around that and avoid admitting that truth, there is no possibility of you reaching a valid conclusion.
Regeneration is the giving of new life. Start there.
 
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guest1

Guest
why are you refusing to acknowledge that regeneration imparts life? As long as you talk around that and avoid admitting that truth, there is no possibility of you reaching a valid conclusion.
Regeneration is the giving of new life. Start there.
its the redefining of biblical words. the hallmark of their dogmas.
 
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guest1

Guest
and how to break thru that and reach a Calvinist mind. I am always interested to hear how a person breaks free from calvinism, what scripture or truth turned them to a more straightforward understanding of the Bible
pm

Yours Truly, Team Truth !

hope this helps !!!
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
why are you refusing to acknowledge that regeneration imparts life? As long as you talk around that and avoid admitting that truth, there is no possibility of you reaching a valid conclusion.
Regeneration is the giving of new life. Start there.
Regeneration brings about life. It is the means but not the life itself
 
G

guest1

Guest
hmmm the Holy Spirit in you is not life, being born again is not new life- who would of thunk it lol- oops

Strong's Concordance
paliggenesia: regeneration, renewal

Original Word: παλιγγενεσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: paliggenesia
Phonetic Spelling: (pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah)
Definition: regeneration, renewal
Usage: a new birth, regeneration, renewal.

HELPS Word-studies
3824 paliggenesía (from 3825 /pálin, "again" and 1078 /génesis, "birth, beginning") – properly, the coming of new birth because "born again"; regeneration.
3824 /paliggenesía ("renewal, rebirth") is used twice in the NT referring to: a) the re-birth of physical creation at Christ's return (Advent), which inaugurates His millennial kingdom (Mt 19:28; cf. Ro 8:18-25); and b) the re-birth all believers experience at conversion (Tit 3:5).

Yours Truly, Team Truth !

hope this helps !!!
 

fltom

Well-known member
It's as they say; word salad. He responded to me by saying it's not a matter of Grace prevening Faith, but is a matter of Faith prevening Regeneration. Well, if Grace makes a real difference before Faith; does it matter if we call it's Effect Regeneration or not? When he does not call Grace's Effect Regeneration, but it does Regenerate; he has a 'Double Regeneration'; IE Regeneration before and after Faith. He doesn't like me using terms like Prevenient Faith, so he probably won't like me using a term like Double Regeneration. Let's say that the Effect of Regeneration can be symbolized with a Circle in Shorthand. In Provisionism we can see the "Effect" of Regeneration before and after Faith; but only the effect after Faith is "named" Regeneration. But a rose by any other name smells as sweet. So the Effect of Prevenient Grace could also use a Circle as Shorthand; because it has the same Effect as Regeneration. It could look like this; "⭕ Faith ⭕". A Provisionist would say it looks like this; "grace, Faith, Regeneration". They would give grace a different Shorthand symbol because they say it's Effect is not Regeneration; perhaps it would look like "❓Faith ⭕". They would say grace is not Efficacious. Perhaps they would say Grace is Efficacious, if even so slightly; this means Prevenient Grace enables us as Regeneration enables us. The Enabling "Effect" is the same as Regenerations "Effect"; it unlocks the gate that keeps us in...

Lol, Double Regeneration...
sorry but that is false

There are many forms of grace and all are not regeneration

which has a specific meaning.

That is mighty sloppy reasoning you are employing there
 

fltom

Well-known member
why are you refusing to acknowledge that regeneration imparts life? As long as you talk around that and avoid admitting that truth, there is no possibility of you reaching a valid conclusion.
Regeneration is the giving of new life. Start there.
Because it refutes their theology

And for them theology tops scripture
 
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