1John 5:1 regeneration before faith

When Jesus made "atonement" in the Holiest of Holies, His payment was accepted by the Father. When sin had been forgiven, wrath propitiated, there was no more work to be done. This is done by imputation, union, substitution, representation, all in the Lord Jesus Christ. You realize Jesus does not die for someone and make "atonement" every time a person believes, right?


Romans 5
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
I do not know if it was intentional. but you did not explain how you personally were saved before you existed.
I do agree that His atonement soothed God's anger for all sin, so that God could be reconciled to us. but you also need to be in Christ so that you can have the redemption that is in Him. Without Christ indwelling you, it is impossible for you to stand before God in Heaven.
Without being indwelt, you are not saved. Provision was made once for all, and salvation was available for all.
So again, how were you saved before you were born?
 
I think all of us posting here think that we have something to say, which is teaching. We should always be ready to give account for the hope that is in us.
Though I do agree some are gifted as teachers and the effect is different for them.
this world teaches according to the flesh . It’s really full of flesh and the wisdom of this world that James 3:15 tells us and Paul 1 Timothy 4:1.
 
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I do not know if it was intentional. but you did not explain how you personally were saved before you existed.
Maybe clarify the question? I didn't do anything to be saved. Christ did it all.

I do agree that His atonement soothed God's anger for all sin, so that God could be reconciled to us. but you also need to be in Christ so that you can have the redemption that is in Him. Without Christ indwelling you, it is impossible for you to stand before God in Heaven.
Yes, I was in Christ from the foundation of the world. That is how I can say:

Galatians 2
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Without being indwelt, you are not saved. Provision was made once for all, and salvation was available for all.
So again, how were you saved before you were born?
When Christ died on the cross, He forgave my sin and propitiated Gods wrath for me. Then He told me about it through His Word by the power of the Holy Spirit. I found out I was saved 2000 years after it happened.

Remember, when a testator dies, the benefits are paid out. If someone had left me millions of dollars 2000 years ago in a bank account in my name, does this mean it was mine when I found out, or when it was deposited?
 
Maybe clarify the question? I didn't do anything to be saved. Christ did it all.


Yes, I was in Christ from the foundation of the world. That is how I can say:

Galatians 2
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


When Christ died on the cross, He forgave my sin and propitiated Gods wrath for me. Then He told me about it through His Word by the power of the Holy Spirit. I found out I was saved 2000 years after it happened.
In the real world, how could you have been in Christ before God created you. You are not even trying to answer this question,
And I am not sure how to clarify the question further, because I said nothing there about you doing something to be saved. That was not at all what my issue with you was.
On another track, I want to see the specific scripture that states as you have stated "When Christ died on the cross He forgave my sin." Cite your verse that states that and we can discuss that verse. I am not disagreeing that our sins were forgiven, but I want to see it stated the way you are stating it. Then we can look at that scripture for what it contains,
1 Cor 15:45+46 teach that the natural is first and then the spiritual. but you are claiming to be alive with Christ spiritually before your natural body was born.
 
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In the real world, how could you have been in Christ before God created you. You are not even trying to answer this question,

Why does he need to?

The only answer we need is the following:

Matt. 19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

You are trying to limit God by reducing Him to only those things you can understand.,
Further, you are putting God in a little box.
God is FAR greater than you realize.

Besides, you're trying to get others to "convince" you that Calvinism is true, when you don't WANT to be convinced, and you will NEVER accept any argument. You simply want fodder to argue against. I fail to understand why you are so insecure in your own beliefs, and why you think causing divisiveness and contention is the least bit "Christian".

To quote a saying that's all the rage these days,

"Where is the love?"
Where is the love in anti-Calvinism?
There is no love in anti-Calvinism.
 
In the real world, how could you have been in Christ before God created you. You are not even trying to answer this question,
I was in Christ because the Father gave me to Christ. Why do I have to physically exist? The flesh isn't what is being saved...that would be impartation. Read Ephesians 1. Also, when David circumcised the 200 Philistines, he married the Kings daughter right after. There is a picture of union right there for you...

On another track, I want to see the specific scripture that states as you have stated "When Christ died on the cross He forgave my sin." Cite your verse that states that and we can discuss that verse. I am not disagreeing that our sins were forgiven, but I want to see it stated the way you are stating it. Then we can look at that scripture for what it contains,
Not interested. You aren't engaging with any of the Scriptures I provided. What you are saying is when the testator died, nothing happened!

Hebrews 9
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

If He put away sin, there is no condemnation! When you deny this, you deny Christ's work!
 
1 Samuel 18
27 Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife.

1. David got his hands bloody circumcising 200 men(Death on a cross).
2. He was victorious over sin, death and condemnation(Philistines) and presented his work to the King.
3. The King gave his daughter to David for marriage(The church).
4. This story is about the Gospel, Christs death on the cross for His people.
 
I was in Christ because the Father gave me to Christ. Why do I have to physically exist? The flesh isn't what is being saved...that would be impartation. Read Ephesians 1. Also, when David circumcised the 200 Philistines, he married the Kings daughter right after. There is a picture of union right there for you...


Not interested. You aren't engaging with any of the Scriptures I provided. What you are saying is when the testator died, nothing happened!

Hebrews 9
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

If He put away sin, there is no condemnation! When you deny this, you deny Christ's work!
Verse 26 confirms that it was His sacrifice that "put away" sin.
is "put away" the same concept as forgave? Honestly in that verse I am not exactly sure what part of atonement and salvation, "put away" refers to. Though I don't think "put away" refers to regneration, which is what saves us, Heb 7:18 uses the same Greek word in reference to a commandment that has been put away. So that gives a clue as to the meaning of the word.

Also. why is it necessary to misrepresnt other posters? You cannot quote me as saying. "when the testator died, nothing happened."
In my experience when someone intentionally misrepresents your opinion so that they can argue against a strawman. It means they see the strength of your position and want to run from it. If not, why did you misrepresent what I have been saying?
 
Also. why is it necessary to misrepresnt other posters? You cannot quote me as saying. "when the testator died, nothing happened."
In my experience when someone intentionally misrepresents your opinion so that they can argue against a strawman. It means they see the strength of your position and want to run from it. If not, why did you misrepresent what I have been saying?
Ok,I didn't see it from that perspective. I apologize.

If you're willing, can you tell me what happened/was accomplished when Christ died on the cross? Maybe one Scripture too?
 
Do you not see how the party line is dishonest? You are not responding in your words to my text. You are spouting prefab calvinistic statements.
You did not enage with the points I made, you simple blanket condemned me. Can you read scripture and address it with your own thoughts and words, or will you always be a parrot, simply repating Calvinist opinions?
It is better for you to engage in your own thoughts and with your own words
Your beliefs sir, have been condemned already, by churches throughout history! Know your history before engaging in these topics.
 
Grace is not given to us in the way you are stating it. Grace means that God gave freely. Salvation is given freely.
The things God gives, He gives by and thru grace. But to say that God gives us grace, but not state WHAT is given by grace falls short of communicating a truth.
Yes, salvation is free. It is by grace. We All know that. When a Calvinist argues as if we do no know that, it shws that he is on autopilot and does mot trully engage with what people are saying.
Step away from the pat accusations and answers. Read, think, formulate ideas.
By these comments of yours, it shows you lack the knowledge to debate them. God owes no one his Grace, get it now? He gives it to whom he wills to give it. Not by something he sees in sinners! If this is the case, then it will not be Grace, but something owed, earned by sinners, get it now????
 
By these comments of yours, it shows you lack the knowledge to debate them. God owes no one his Grace, get it now? He gives it to whom he wills to give it. Not by something he sees in sinners! If this is the case, then it will not be Grace, but something owed, earned by sinners, get it now????
Justification by Faith Alone! Romans 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness!
Glad you note justification must be preceded by faith

Perhaps there may be one here who denies a instrumental connection

  1. Sola Fide – Faith alone
    1. This means that we are saved from our sins by faith alone in Christ, and not by faith and anything we do, whether it be baptism, church membership, good works, sincerity, or anything else. God is the proper object of faith. When we have faith in the work of Christ and his sacrifice on the cross, we are justified (Romans 5:1).
 
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