1John 5:1 regeneration before faith

Ephesians 1:11

The conclusion you reach. Certainly not the necessary conclusion.
So you just ignored multiple verses

James 1:13-14; 1John 2:16; Jer 32:35; Isa 30:1; Gal 5:7-8; 1Cor 14:33; 1Cor 10:13

which show things god did not determine and run to another verse

which does not even mention determination only that he works all things out
 
So you just ignored multiple verses

No, we don't ignore ANY verses.
We may not waste our time sharing our interpretation with YOU (since you simply say we're wrong, and you're not our authority) but we don't "ignore" them.

James 1:13-14; 1John 2:16; Jer 32:35; Isa 30:1; Gal 5:7-8; 1Cor 14:33; 1Cor 10:13

which show things god did not determine and run to another verse

We don't believe they "show" that.
You are not the ultimate authority on the meaning of verses.
I hope that one day you will learn that.

And one of the reasons we "run to another verse" is that they are part of what shows YOUR interpretation to be wrong. We have to be fully informed by what ALL Scripture teaches, not just your favourite "proof-texts".
 
So you just ignored multiple verses

James 1:13-14; 1John 2:16; Jer 32:35; Isa 30:1; Gal 5:7-8; 1Cor 14:33; 1Cor 10:13

which show things god did not determine and run to another verse

which does not even mention determination only that he works all things out
So all things are worked out with no end in mind then? LOL

Ignore them because they are irrelevant to the topic at hand. They make no mention of determinism. Your...wait for it.....question begging. Unusual I know.
 
No, we don't ignore ANY verses.
We may not waste our time sharing our interpretation with YOU (since you simply say we're wrong, and you're not our authority) but we don't "ignore" them.
Sorry Reformedguy ignored multiple verses

James 1:13-14; 1John 2:16; Jer 32:35; Isa 30:1; Gal 5:7-8; 1Cor 14:33; 1Cor 10:13

Is he the sum of all Calvinists here that you use the pronoun we?

The collective of Calvinists?


We don't believe they "show" that.
You are not the ultimate authority on the meaning of verses.
I hope that one day you will learn that.

And one of the reasons we "run to another verse" is that they are part of what shows YOUR interpretation to be wrong. We have to be fully informed by what ALL Scripture teaches, not just your favourite "proof-texts".
Well the verse he quoted dos not speak about determination

The verse I quoted mention things God did not determine

Tell me what you do with that
 
So all things are worked out with no end in mind then? LOL

Ignore them because they are irrelevant to the topic at hand. They make no mention of determinism. Your...wait for it.....question begging. Unusual I know.
Your comment is rather senseless as working things out to a determined end does not mean everything before that end was determined only that God can out of it accomplish his will
 
Sorry Reformedguy ignored multiple verses

James 1:13-14; 1John 2:16; Jer 32:35; Isa 30:1; Gal 5:7-8; 1Cor 14:33; 1Cor 10:13

I think he said he didn't.
So I'm going to believe him over you.

You need to face it, after you've shown us your "verses" (once), and we've shown you our verses, then discussion is pretty much over. If neither of us have been convinced by the other side, then no amount of attempted "brainwashing" is going to change that.
 
I think he said he didn't.
So I'm going to believe him over you.
Instead of assuming why don't you examine the exchange and see where he addressed any of those verses

your problem here is you are assuming in the absense of any evidence of such

and a complete failure to address a single verse


You need to face it, after you've shown us your "verses" (once), and we've shown you our verses, then discussion is pretty much over. If neither of us have been convinced by the other side, then no amount of attempted "brainwashing" is going to change that.

It is rather amazing how you come to such conclusion when nothing was actually addressed by you
 
Huh? LOL My thread is senseless? Anyone understand this mess?
Did I mention thread

your comment is rather senseless as working things out to a determined end does not mean everything before that end was determined only that God can out of it accomplish his will

God is capable of working all that transpires so that they fit into his determined end

that does not mean each thing was determined
 
Instead of assuming why don't you examine the exchange and see where he addressed any of those verses

Just because he doesn't want to waste his time answering to you, doesn't mean that he "ignored" anything.
Get over yourself, and stop being so insulting.

And a complete failure to address a single verse

Some of us have better things to do than respond to your same proof-texts hundreds of times when all you do is tell us we're "wrong" (as if you were the "teacher", which you're not).

It is rather amazing how you come to such conclusion when nothing was actually addressed by you

We have no obligation to "address" anything.
Get over yourself already.
 
Did I mention thread

your comment is rather senseless as working things out to a determined end does not mean everything before that end was determined only that God can out of it accomplish his will

God is capable of working all that transpires so that they fit into his determined end

that does not mean each thing was determined
"all that transpires"

"that does not mean each thing was determined"

There ya go folks. Provisionist logic in a nut shell
 
"all that transpires"

"that does not mean each thing was determined"

There ya go folks. Provisionist logic in a nut shell
Duh worked out to fit his will not determined

You really should not talk about logic here

as you are falling short

working something out is not the same as a determining a thing
 
... ὁ μὴ πιστεύων τῷ Θεῷ ψεύστην πεποίηκεν αὐτόν, ὅτι οὐ πεπίστευκεν...
...the one that is not a believer (present tense) has, and still is at this point in time, made God to be a liar (perfect tense) because he has not and continues to not believe (perfect tense)....

Not believing is the cause of God being made a liar. God is made to be a liar because we do not presently believe. The act of not believing is the grammatical precedent and foundational condition of the result of making God to be a liar.

Doug
Apples and oranges...

There is no change of state involved here, unlike the case with someone who gets born again.
 
So then your "belief is faith" argument falls by the way side. There can be a difference between belief and faith. That accounts for the fact that the everyone (unregenerate people included) has the capacity to believe as Jesus demonstrated in Mark 1:15.

I never said that this is a passage for grace through faith. What Romans 2:15 does get across is that the unregenerate man is not at a total loss for believing God. He does have his conscience that can guide him towards choosing to follow God.

Stop calling the Bible fiction.

If you would just look 2 verses before the passages you recommended (Rom 8:7,8), you would have seen that I was right when I said that "those are people who live according to the flesh":

5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

My point still stands. Those are people who live according to the flesh. That means that they have seared their conscience and tossed out whatever good God has gifted to them. They were gifted with the tools to believe God (their God-given minds, for one) but they squandered them.
Sometimes you just know when there is no point in trying to help someone, because that person is not interested in the truth...
 
Duh worked out to fit his will not determined

Eph 1:11 doesn't say, "worked out to fit his will", as if God reacts to something man does first.

And the verse EXPLICITLY mentions "predestined" in it!

Seems to me YOU'RE the only one "ignoring" things in this discussion.
 
Eph 1:11 doesn't say, "worked out to fit his will", as if God reacts to something man does first.

And the verse EXPLICITLY mentions "predestined" in it!

Seems to me YOU'RE the only one "ignoring" things in this discussion.
What you missed

Ephesians 1:11 (ESV) — 11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

is it is not all things which are predestined

we are predestined to an inheritance

that is not a statement God determines all thing

your objection was poorly made
 
What you missed

Ephesians 1:11 (ESV) — 11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

is it is not all things which are predestined

we are predestined to an inheritance

that is not a statement God determines all thing

your objection was poorly made

You just refuse to see it, don't you?
 
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