1John 5:1 regeneration before faith

Nope.
"Come to me" is a COMMAND, not an "invitation".
You are not talking about the intent of the language, only the form.
In that passage, Jesus is making an invitation, and it is in the form of a command, at least in English, but the commad form can be used to set up and if/then situation which it does here. If you come, then I will give rest

And yes, Jesus said exactly what He meant
 
Thanks it’s good to laugh in here once in a while as many are tightly wound up protecting a doctrine . God has a sense of humor just look at some of the things in creation . Ecclesiastes 3 there is a time to weep and a time to laugh 😂. A time to mourn , to dance 🕺, and it says it’s a gift from God.
Ok, then I need to find that time to dance
 
projection, the mental process by which people attribute to others what is in their own minds. For example, individuals who are in a self-critical state, consciously or unconsciously, may think that other people are critical of them. The concept was introduced to psychology by the Austrian psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud (1856–1939), who borrowed the word projection from neurology, where it referred to the inherent capacity of neurons to transmit stimuli from one level of the nervous system to another (e.g., the retina “projects” to the occipital cortex, where raw sensory input is rendered into visual images). In contemporary psychological science the term continues to have the meaning of seeing the self in the other. This presumably universal tendency of the human social animal has both positive and negative effects.

In projection, what is internal is seen as external. People cannot get inside the minds of others; to understand someone else’s mental life, one must project one’s own experience.


Jeremiah 17:9
9.... Who can understand it? 10 I, the LORD, search the heart; I examine the mind to reward a man according to his way, by what his deeds deserve.…

Acts 15:8
8And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us.9He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.…
 
projection, the mental process by which people attribute to others what is in their own minds. For example, individuals who are in a self-critical state, consciously or unconsciously, may think that other people are critical of them. The concept was introduced to psychology by the Austrian psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud (1856–1939), who borrowed the word projection from neurology, where it referred to the inherent capacity of neurons to transmit stimuli from one level of the nervous system to another (e.g., the retina “projects” to the occipital cortex, where raw sensory input is rendered into visual images). In contemporary psychological science the term continues to have the meaning of seeing the self in the other. This presumably universal tendency of the human social animal has both positive and negative effects.

In projection, what is internal is seen as external. People cannot get inside the minds of others; to understand someone else’s mental life, one must project one’s own experience.


Jeremiah 17:9
9.... Who can understand it? 10 I, the LORD, search the heart; I examine the mind to reward a man according to his way, by what his deeds deserve.…

Acts 15:8
8And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us.9He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.…
That was insightful.
 
Dr. Rob Plummer is a Greek scholar. He's written a grammar, he teaches Greek, and he has a daily video called, "Daily Dose of Greek", where he spends a couple of minutes each day parsing and translating a verse of the New Testament each day.

He's already gone through 1 John, and the page with the 1 John 5 verses translated can be found here:

Since his videos are intended to help keep students' translating skills sharp, he concentrates more on translation, but he does occasionally refer to interpretational nuances as they appear. As he translates "γεγεννηται" ("has been born"), he points out that it is in the perfect passive indicative, and contrasts that with "every one who is believing" being in the present tense.

In fact, at the one minute mark he states:

"Notice the shift in tenses here. We have the present, the person who believes, who evidences current belief, HAS been born, perfect tense, from God."

So Dr. Plummer thinks the shift in tenses (from completed past action, to present tense) is significant here. Further, he points out that "has been born" is passive, it is not something we do, it is something done to us.
Are you implying like many Calvinist often do that regeneration precedes repentance and faith and if you are, what scriptures are you saying that this guy uses to prove this?

I don't want to have to listen to him spouting out his Greek knowledge for it, but I want you to tell me what scripture verses he is using so that I can view the context in order to see what John was really saying by it.


There is a big difference between God leading someone to repentance and faith and actual regeneration and notice it Jesus said "no man comes to him unless the Father DRAWS HIM and that doesn't require regeneration either, for no one can be regenerated without first repenting and believing the gospel message.

So where as I can agree with the Calvinist that unless God does something to turn us about we will not repent or believe, I do not agree with those Calvinist who say that God does this from inside a non believer through regeneration before he repents and believes, for that is not the truth.


By the way, God has his own ways of getting us to the point where we are tired of our own way and living for ourselves without having to enter into our being and regenerating us from within.
 
Dr. Rob Plummer is a Greek scholar. He's written a grammar, he teaches Greek, and he has a daily video called, "Daily Dose of Greek", where he spends a couple of minutes each day parsing and translating a verse of the New Testament each day.

He's already gone through 1 John, and the page with the 1 John 5 verses translated can be found here:

Since his videos are intended to help keep students' translating skills sharp, he concentrates more on translation, but he does occasionally refer to interpretational nuances as they appear. As he translates "γεγεννηται" ("has been born"), he points out that it is in the perfect passive indicative, and contrasts that with "every one who is believing" being in the present tense.

In fact, at the one minute mark he states:

"Notice the shift in tenses here. We have the present, the person who believes, who evidences current belief, HAS been born, perfect tense, from God."

So Dr. Plummer thinks the shift in tenses (from completed past action, to present tense) is significant here. Further, he points out that "has been born" is passive, it is not something we do, it is something done to us.
OK, you must be exclusively referring to 1 John 5:1 and what you are not grabbing a hold of here, is the fact that in the Greek "present tense" is continuing action and therefore all John is saying by this, is that those who continue to believe in Jesus as the Christ have been born again (completed action from the past).

Nevertheless, this in no way means that they didn't have initial repentance and faith first in order to be born again but only that their being born again as a completed action from the past is why they now in the present tense continue to believe.

John is not speaking of initial or one time faith, but rather continued faith and due to the fact that at one time they repented and believed the gospel and therefore were born again towards continuing repentance and faith as a result.
 
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OK, you must be exclusively referring to 1 John 5:1 and what you are not grabbing a hold of here, is the fact that in the Greek "present tense" is continuing action and therefore all John is saying by this, is that those who continue to believe in Jesus as the Christ have been born again (completed action from the past).

Nevertheless, this in no way means that they didn't have initial repentance and faith first in order to be born again but only that their being born again as a completed action from the past is why they now in the present tense continue to believe.

John is not speaking of initial or one time faith, but rather continued faith and due to the fact that at one time they repented and believed the gospel and therefore were born again towards continuing repentance and faith as a result.
Many scriptures refute the idea regeneration precedes faith


 
Many scriptures refute the idea regeneration precedes faith


Exactly but even this one he is using in 1 John 5:1 doesn't reveal that regeneration precedes faith and I revealed this by the fact that the perfect tense in Greek is continual action and not just one time action.


In fact in order for regeneration to take place in ones heart, it requires the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and there is no way that the Holy Spirit comes into a human heart before he repents of his sins and accepts by faith the blood atonement for his sins that Christ made on the cross.

The whole idea is absurd and totally un Biblical.
 
Exactly but even this one he is using in 1 John 5:1 doesn't reveal that regeneration precedes faith and I revealed this by the fact that the perfect tense in Greek is continual action and not just one time action.


In fact in order for regeneration to take place in ones heart, it requires the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and there is no way that the Holy Spirit comes into a human heart before he repents of his sins and accepts by faith the blood atonement for his sins that Christ made on the cross.

The whole idea is absurd and totally un Biblical.
Absolutely correct

Regeneration does not happen without the Holy Spirit indwelling
 
Exactly but even this one he is using in 1 John 5:1 doesn't reveal that regeneration precedes faith and I revealed this by the fact that the perfect tense in Greek is continual action and not just one time action.


In fact in order for regeneration to take place in ones heart, it requires the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and there is no way that the Holy Spirit comes into a human heart before he repents of his sins and accepts by faith the blood atonement for his sins that Christ made on the cross.

The whole idea is absurd and totally un Biblical.
Hey we agree :)
 
Hey we agree :)
Well, I guess there is a first for almost everything huh?

What I do believe however, is that once God brings us to a complete brokenness in repentance, he then speaks his word into our hearts (the word is near you even in your heart and in your mouth) so that we can actually hear it within our heart so that it produces faith within us so that we can believe and this is how we are saved and without it, no one can be saved either.
 
Well, I guess there is a first for almost everything huh?

What I do believe however, is that once God brings us to a complete brokenness in repentance, he then speaks his word into our hearts (the word is near you even in your heart and in your mouth) so that it produces faith within us so that we can believe and this is how we are saved and without it, no one can be saved either.
We agree again as Gods grace precedes our faith and repentance in salvation.
 
We agree again as Gods grace precedes our faith and repentance in salvation.
Definitely Ephesians 2:8-10.

"For by grace you are saved through faith and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God and not by (human) works lest any man should boast, FOR WE ARE HIS WORKMANSHIP CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS WHICH GOD HAS BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM".
 
Definitely Ephesians 2:8-10.

"For by grace you are saved through faith and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God and not by (human) works lest any man should boast, FOR WE ARE HIS WORKMANSHIP CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS WHICH GOD HAS BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM".
Yes no works, no faith, no salvation. The two go hand in hand together.

Its why faith alone, sola fide is not true. James makes it clear as does Paul above that faith without works is dead.
 
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