2 Thes 2:3

What is your opinion on the usage of "apostate" in the OP?

Somehow the discussion turned into a proving the pre-trib rapture.
We do not need to use 2Thes2 as a proof verse for the Rapture.
!) Have you ever noticed that anti-rature movement never even mention:

1 Thes 1:10 “And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”==>WHY?

1 Thes 5:9
“For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,” ==>>WHY?

Luke 21:36
“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”==>>WHY?

Rev 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.==>>WHY?

I will tell you why. The verses are crystal clear that we will not have to endure the Tribulation period.

AS for 2Thes2, What difference does it matter? The above verses still hold true regardless of the position taken. I concede the point.
Having said that, I can argue this verse:

2Thes 2:
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

I would argue that the Holy Spirit that indwells the people of the church shall be taken out of the way prior to the revealing of the AC.
 
Good, now were back to post 1.

As pointed out "falling away" is better translated as "departure"...where the christians are gathered then depart with Christ at the pre-trib rapture then the man of sin will be revealed.
So you believe you will depart before christ comes because Paul states the departure and the man of sin is revealed before Christ comes and gathers us.
Who are you going to depart from before Christ comes and gathers us at his coming?
 
This verse id for the Jews in the tribulation...

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Endures what? Till the end of what? Saved from what?

BTW, I'm still waiting for you to discuss the word used.
Some theorize the RCC changed the word to apostacy or rebellion and it has been carried through to todays modern translations so they could show that it was the protestant reformation who broke away from the RCC church were these predicted apostates. Clever.

Endures means to remain faithful till the end.
Till the time of the end which is the end of an age.
Saved means your not thrown away with the garbage. It means your going to be kept.Delived from destruction.

Daniel wrote about the time of he end when his people, who's names are written, will be deliverd(saved) and those who sleep in the dust awaken. But before this, Daniel says the man if sin dies which coresponds to what Paul said.
 
We do not need to use 2Thes2 as a proof verse for the Rapture.
!) Have you ever noticed that anti-rature movement never even mention:

1 Thes 1:10 “And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”==>WHY?

1 Thes 5:9
“For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,” ==>>WHY?

Luke 21:36
“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”==>>WHY?

Rev 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.==>>WHY?

I will tell you why. The verses are crystal clear that we will not have to endure the Tribulation period.

AS for 2Thes2, What difference does it matter? The above verses still hold true regardless of the position taken. I concede the point.
Having said that, I can argue this verse:

2Thes 2:
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

I would argue that the Holy Spirit that indwells the people of the church shall be taken out of the way prior to the revealing of the AC.
You said "We do not need to use 2Thes2 as a proof verse for the Rapture."...which is true.

Today I watch some videos on 2 Thes 2 and the guy didn't even mention "depart" when he laid out the pre-trib rapture.
I wish he did as his video would've been that much stronger.
 
Yes, people will be saved during the tribulation. And Christ will deliver them when he comes.
The ones that make it through the tribulation....many will not as Rev 13 tells us. 7 Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them...
 
The ones that make it through the tribulation....many will not as Rev 13 tells us. 7 Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them...
Yes the beast is in Israel.
As I said. The tribulation takes place in Israel.
The tribulation that you say you will need to be raptured from the world because the saints in Israel is persecuted.
I've already quoted scripture from the gospel that covers this.
 
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Good, now were back to post 1.

As pointed out "falling away" is better translated as "departure"...where the christians are gathered then depart with Christ at the pre-trib rapture then the man of sin will be revealed.


So you believe you will first depart before the coming of our Lord and our gathering to him.

So what are you departing from before the coming of our Lord and our gathering to him?
 
Yes the beast is in Israel.
Could be....but the effects of the beast system will be felt world wide.
As I said. The tribulation takes place in Israel.
the Bible in many verses tells us it will be world wide..Rev 8:7 tells us.. A third of the earth was burned up, along with a third of the trees and all the green grass......isn't that a bit bigger than Israel?
The very next verse says....a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned to blood, 9a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
The tribulation that you say you will need to be raptured from the world because the saints in Israel is persecuted.
Once again...there will be people who come to Christ during the trib. They will be from all over the world.
I've already quoted scripture from the gospel that covers this.
I'm sure you think you did.
 
Could be....but the effects of the beast system will be felt world wide.

the Bible in many verses tells us it will be world wide..Rev 8:7 tells us.. A third of the earth was burned up, along with a third of the trees and all the green grass......isn't that a bit bigger than Israel?
The very next verse says....a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned to blood, 9a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

Once again...there will be people who come to Christ during the trib. They will be from all over the world.

I'm sure you think you did.


As I said. I've already quoted from the gospel that covers some of the saints in Israel will die during the tribulation.
Luke 21:16
You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers and sisters, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death.


This doesn't take place outside of Israel.
In fact, the saints are instructed by Christ to not leave Israel.
 
Not quite sure just what you're trying to make me say here....The gathering and departure is the pre-trib rapture.
Then you still havnt paid attention to what Paul said in the OP.

Paul said there will be a departure, and the son of perdition would be revealed before the coming of our Lord and our gathering to him..

You say you will be a part of that departing before our lord comes.
So what are you departing from before our Lord comes and gathers us to him?
 
As I said. I've already quoted from the gospel that covers some of the saints in Israel will die during the tribulation.
Luke 21:16
You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers and sisters, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death.


This doesn't take place outside of Israel.
In fact, the saints are instructed by Christ to not leave Israel.
What-ever.
 
Then you still havnt paid attention to what Paul said in the OP.

Paul said there will be a departure, and the son of perdition would be revealed before the coming of our Lord and our gathering to him..

You say you will be a part of that departing before our lord comes.
So what are you departing from before our Lord comes and gathers us to him?
Wasn't you who said I'm a tare and will be gathered and burnt up first?
 
Wasn't you who said I'm a tare and will be gathered and burnt up first?


Mathew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

Wasn't it you who said you would be gatherd first.
The wheat is not gatherd till after the tares are burned.
 
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Wasn't you who said I'm a tare and will be gathered and burnt up first?

You did say you would be gatherd first, didn't you?


Mathew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
 
Then I guess according to you.....I'm doomed.
Not according to me. The following words are not mine.

Mathew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”


Your the one who says you will go first.
So according to you, your doomed.
 
Yes the beast is in Israel.
As I said. The tribulation takes place in Israel.
The tribulation that you say you will need to be raptured from the world because the saints in Israel is persecuted.
I've already quoted scripture from the gospel that covers this.
The AC will rule the entire world.

Rev 13:

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and
power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 
The AC will rule the entire world.

Rev 13:

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and
power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Well, you just described Israel. Home of people who have followed after the beast from all over the world. A nation of immigrants.

Rev 13:3
One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.

Pretty much describes the city of Babylon as well.

Revelation 17:15
Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.
 
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