50 years of climate predictions

Thistle

Well-known member
Lets agree to disagree. You stated cheap energy has gotten people out of poverty which is absolute nonsense.
That is the most counterfactual statement that will be made in the next decade. If you honestly believe that statement you were extremely stupid.
Energy in a capitalist system is never cheap.
It's extremely cheap in capitalist countries relative to the alternatives. It's a wonder you can tell the difference between night and day.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
That is the most counterfactual statement that will be made in the next decade. If you honestly believe that statement you were extremely stupid.

It's extremely cheap in capitalist countries relative to the alternatives. It's a wonder you can tell the difference between night and day.
Pronoun

Lets agree to disagree. You stated cheap energy has gotten people out of poverty which is absolute nonsense.

One major reason my Mennonite ancestors left Russia Ukraine. Big but not only reason.

They were doing awesome as farmers raising red winter wheat. in Russia. The Russians move the grain on the river using barges. Rip off shipping costs.

Farmers could not make a profit because of high costs.

So they moved to Kansas. To feed the world.

The cost of energy to ship the grain to Egypt was low and made it easier to reduce starvation. China relied on cheap energy to get low soybean import prices for meal for hogs and oil for cooking.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Pronoun



One major reason my Mennonite ancestors left Russia Ukraine. Big but not only reason.

They were doing awesome as farmers raising red winter wheat. in Russia. The Russians move the grain on the river using barges. Rip off shipping costs.

Farmers could not make a profit because of high costs.

So they moved to Kansas. To feed the world.

The cost of energy to ship the grain to Egypt was low and made it easier to reduce starvation. China relied on cheap energy to get low soybean import prices for meal for hogs and oil for cooking.
Only indoctrination could conceal the truth of what you've just written.
 

Backup

Well-known member
Pronoun



One major reason my Mennonite ancestors left Russia Ukraine. Big but not only reason.

They were doing awesome as farmers raising red winter wheat. in Russia. The Russians move the grain on the river using barges. Rip off shipping costs.

Farmers could not make a profit because of high costs.

So they moved to Kansas. To feed the world.

The cost of energy to ship the grain to Egypt was low and made it easier to reduce starvation. China relied on cheap energy to get low soybean import prices for meal for hogs and oil for cooking.

Renewable energy is ultimately the cheapest.

Anti-environmentalism is a stupid right-wing position with its origin in the hatred of hippies.

It is as misguided as the idea we are still fighting communism.

Everyone in headed towards renewables. Several countries have pretty much gotten rid of fossil fuels altogether.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
That is the most counterfactual statement that will be made in the next decade. If you honestly believe that statement you were extremely stupid.

It's extremely cheap in capitalist countries relative to the alternatives. It's a wonder you can tell the difference between night and day.
Cheap energy obviously reduces poverty. What causes problems is discounting expensive energy, ignoring its true cost and calling it cheap. A nuclear energy industry that ignored the cost of waste disposal and decommissioning, would produce cheap energy that in the long run would be disastrously expensive. In the same way, a fossil fuel energy that ignores the long term costs of clearing up the damage to the environment, is cheap only in name. It's just a form of Ponzi scheme, passing the costs on to the future.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Cheap energy obviously reduces poverty. What causes problems is discounting expensive energy, ignoring its true cost and calling it cheap. A nuclear energy industry that ignored the cost of waste disposal and decommissioning, would produce cheap energy that in the long run would be disastrously expensive. In the same way, a fossil fuel energy that ignores the long term costs of clearing up the damage to the environment, is cheap only in name. It's just a form of Ponzi scheme, passing the costs on to the future.
What is your suggestion then to tackle this problem?
 

BMS

Well-known member
Renewable energy is ultimately the cheapest.

Anti-environmentalism is a stupid right-wing position with its origin in the hatred of hippies.

It is as misguided as the idea we are still fighting communism.

Everyone in headed towards renewables. Several countries have pretty much gotten rid of fossil fuels altogether.
What do you mean by renewable? Where does this energy come from? Solar, wind? The sun wont last forever
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Cheap energy obviously reduces poverty. What causes problems is discounting expensive energy, ignoring its true cost and calling it cheap. A nuclear energy industry that ignored the cost of waste disposal and decommissioning, would produce cheap energy that in the long run would be disastrously expensive. In the same way, a fossil fuel energy that ignores the long term costs of clearing up the damage to the environment, is cheap only in name. It's just a form of Ponzi scheme, passing the costs on to the future.
The problems with nuclear waste disposal have been solved and relatively speaking nuclear energy is cheap. And the Earth has a way of cleansing itself and on any relative scale fossil fuels is vastly cleaner than the energy it replaced.
 

Backup

Well-known member
What do you mean by renewable? Where does this energy come from? Solar, wind? The sun wont last forever

there is no way in the world I’m going to Google that and copy and paste the answer for you

It’s hard to believe you posted “the sun wont last forever”

You people really can’t defend your positions
 

Temujin

Well-known member
The problems with nuclear waste disposal have been solved and relatively speaking nuclear energy is cheap. And the Earth has a way of cleansing itself and on any relative scale fossil fuels is vastly cleaner than the energy it replaced.
Tell that to the victims of climate change, except you don't care about them because you'll be dead by the time the worst effects of unrestricted fossil fuel use is realised.

The problems caused by fossil fuels are not coated. If they were, no-one would use them where alternatives exist, because they would be too expensive. We are borrowing from future generations, while at the same time restricting the ability for them to pay the crippling costs that have already built up.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Tell that to the victims of climate change, except you don't care about them because you'll be dead by the time the worst effects of unrestricted fossil fuel use is realised.

The problems caused by fossil fuels are not coated. If they were, no-one would use them where alternatives exist, because they would be too expensive. We are borrowing from future generations, while at the same time restricting the ability for them to pay the crippling costs that have already built up.
You know I'd like to have a rational conversation about this, but I can see that you are completely brainwashed, so that is absolutely impossible.
 

Furion

Well-known member
Tell that to the victims of climate change, except you don't care about them because you'll be dead by the time the worst effects of unrestricted fossil fuel use is realised.

The problems caused by fossil fuels are not coated. If they were, no-one would use them where alternatives exist, because they would be too expensive. We are borrowing from future generations, while at the same time restricting the ability for them to pay the crippling costs that have already built up.
Every generation suffers from the ones before it, it's hardly noteworthy.

Pulling alleged victims from the future to berate others is unimpressive.

This thread is to look upon your predictive skills against your climate science, see if there is any substance. It is a very poor record to date and people won't just believe you because you have great fear. I don't have your fears.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Every generation suffers from the ones before it, it's hardly noteworthy.

Pulling alleged victims from the future to berate others is unimpressive.

This thread is to look upon your predictive skills against your climate science, see if there is any substance. It is a very poor record to date and people won't just believe you because you have great fear. I don't have your fears.
No, I'm not fearful. There's a certain amount of guilt and anger, but mostly I feel optimistic. Those societies that adopt renewable clean energy technologies will prosper. Those that cling to fossil fuels, won't. No country, however blessed, has a firm grip on industrial dominance. The factors that made Britain the dominant world power in the 19th century, waned decades ago. That wheel hasn't stopped turning. I don't think that civilisation will fall. I think that thousands will die and millions will be displaced, but as a species we will be fine. Our grandchildren and great grandchildren may have a tougher time than us, but not as tough as our medieval ancestors. That's my opinion, so your mind reading skills are still none too sharp.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Only indoctrination could conceal the truth of what you've just written.
I enjoy history. Looking at how they shocked wheat, hauled it on horse drawn trailers and thrashed it in a steam powered thrashing machine.

High tech Mexicans (our German second cousins)


When I was a kid, I saw new John Deere tractors in Mexico. They could order them with steel wheels because of a lack of tire shops in the city.

Built in Germany because of high tariffs on imported machines from Iowa.
 

wiseones2cents

Well-known member
That is the most counterfactual statement that will be made in the next decade. If you honestly believe that statement you were extremely stupid.

I can say the same about you. What has increased wealth is the expansion of the money supply. Not cheap energy.lol
It's extremely cheap in capitalist countries relative to the alternatives. It's a wonder you can tell the difference between night and day.
Is that why it's twice the amount in Europe?

Sorry. You dont know what your talking about.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Renewable energy is ultimately the cheapest.
False. You are not educated enough to do the math and calculate why wind power is more than twice as expensive at the meter if you include subsidies.

Subsides in the construction
Subsidies on manufacturing
Mandates on marketing
subsidized transmission and gathering grids.

The average "fan" runs around 20-22% of name plate capacity.

1,450 tons of coal burned with iron ore to make the steel for one huge tower and the rebar for the pad.


I have video shot by my employee who was tech project manager in developing Enron Tehachapi. My company partnered with Enron.

The 35 ton fiber glass blades can't be recycled.
 
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Furion

Well-known member
No, I'm not fearful. There's a certain amount of guilt and anger, but mostly I feel optimistic. Those societies that adopt renewable clean energy technologies will prosper. Those that cling to fossil fuels, won't. No country, however blessed, has a firm grip on industrial dominance. The factors that made Britain the dominant world power in the 19th century, waned decades ago. That wheel hasn't stopped turning. I don't think that civilisation will fall. I think that thousands will die and millions will be displaced, but as a species we will be fine. Our grandchildren and great grandchildren may have a tougher time than us, but not as tough as our medieval ancestors. That's my opinion, so your mind reading skills are still none too sharp.
You have many opinions but no actual evidence.

Thousands will die.
Millions will be displaced.

Ok. You could make the same claim about wars.

Got anything else?
 

wiseones2cents

Well-known member
Pronoun



One major reason my Mennonite ancestors left Russia Ukraine. Big but not only reason.

They were doing awesome as farmers raising red winter wheat. in Russia. The Russians move the grain on the river using barges. Rip off shipping costs.

Farmers could not make a profit because of high costs.
That has NOTHING to do with socialism. I know most of the profits that the U.S.S.R made was directed to military spending. To defend themselves against capitalist aggression. I personally think it was all theater.

Ummm you cant make profit in a socialist system(The government controls industry). You can only EARN your money.


So they moved to Kansas. To feed the world.

Mennonite communities are not about making profit. They are about self sufficiency. The only reason they need to make extra is to pay the tax man(The capitalists)!



The cost of energy to ship the grain to Egypt was low and made it easier to reduce starvation. China relied on cheap energy to get low soybean import prices for meal for hogs and oil for cooking.
All nonsense. Have you seen the cost of energy? lol It's not low!! Initially the cost of energy was low because there was no demand for it.

You guys dont know what your talking about.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
No, I'm not fearful.
Fear merchandising
There's a certain amount of guilt and anger, but mostly I feel optimistic. Those societies that adopt renewable clean energy technologies will prosper. Those that cling to fossil fuels, won't. No country, however blessed, has a firm grip on industrial dominance. The factors that made Britain the dominant world power in the 19th century, waned decades ago. That wheel hasn't stopped turning. I don't think that civilisation will fall. I think that thousands will die and millions will be displaced, but as a species we will be fine. Our grandchildren and great grandchildren may have a tougher time than us, but not as tough as our medieval ancestors. That's my opinion, so your mind reading skills are still none too sharp.
All the people born before the last century are DEAD. Duh!
 
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