500 Year Anniversary of the Diet of Worms

BornAgainRN

Active member
Today marks arguably one of the most important events in the last half-millennium - the 500 year anniversary of the Diet of Worms. On April 16th, 1521, Martin Luther was summoned to appear before the Holy Roman Empire to recant his faith in the gospel of salvation by faith alone, which is clearly taught in Scripture (Romans 1:16-17; 4:3-5; 5:1, etc.) Instead, on April 18th, 1521, Luther gave his famous speech:

"Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. May God help me. Amen."

Regardless on one's opinion of Luther, he no doubt changed the world for the better, even for Catholics, who would not know the Bible even to the extent they do now, not to mention countless of benefits, both religious & secular, that we all take for granted on a daily basis.
 
Today marks arguably one of the most important events in the last half-millennium - the 500 year anniversary of the Diet of Worms. On April 16th, 1521, Martin Luther was summoned to appear before the Holy Roman Empire to recant his faith in the gospel of salvation by faith alone, which is clearly taught in Scripture (Romans 1:16-17; 4:3-5; 5:1, etc.) Instead, on April 18th, 1521, Luther gave his famous speech:

"Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. May God help me. Amen."

Regardless on one's opinion of Luther, he no doubt changed the world for the better, even for Catholics, who would not know the Bible even to the extent they do now, not to mention countless of benefits, both religious & secular, that we all take for granted on a daily basis.

Martin Luther only jumped from the frying pan into the fire.
 
But in the process, restored the FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH of Christianity, that the Catholics had long forgotten (with their phony "We are the CHURCH" BECAUSE WE SAY SO heresy).

You really need to learn how to get a grip on reality instead of supposing you can always turn away from facts by tickling your itching ears and telling yourself whatever it is you want to hear to comfort yourself.
 
You really need to learn how to get a grip on reality instead of supposing you can always turn away from facts by tickling your itching ears and telling yourself whatever it is you want to hear to comfort yourself.
Faithful, knowledgeable, Church-loving, Catholic Author Peter Kreeft
quote
"How do I resolve the Reformation?​
Is it faith alone that justifies, or is it faith and works?​
Very simple. No tricks.​
On this issue I believe Luther was simply right; and this issue is absolutely crucial.​
As a Catholic I feel guilt for the tragedy of Christian disunity because the church in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was failing to preach the gospel.
Whatever theological mistakes Luther made, whatever indispensable truths about the Church he denied, here is an indispensable truth he affirmed — indispensable to union between all sinners and God and union between God’s separated Catholic and Protestant children."​
end quote
 
Today marks arguably one of the most important events in the last half-millennium - the 500 year anniversary of the Diet of Worms. On April 16th, 1521, Martin Luther was summoned to appear before the Holy Roman Empire to recant his faith in the gospel of salvation by faith alone, which is clearly taught in Scripture (Romans 1:16-17; 4:3-5; 5:1, etc.) Instead, on April 18th, 1521, Luther gave his famous speech:

"Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. May God help me. Amen."

Regardless on one's opinion of Luther, he no doubt changed the world for the better, even for Catholics, who would not know the Bible even to the extent they do now, not to mention countless of benefits, both religious & secular, that we all take for granted on a daily basis.
Luther would not the too thrilled with heterodoxy that came our of the “Reformation” Baptist/Presbyterians or America Evangelicalism. In fact there was only one real reformation~ the Lutheran reformation.
 
Luther would not the too thrilled with heterodoxy that came our of the “Reformation” Baptist/Presbyterians or America Evangelicalism. In fact there was only one real reformation~ the Lutheran reformation.
Your church history knowledge should include the Anabaptists. Without them, we would not have adult baptism for believers, Baptist churches, and ultimately, the Pilgrims of 1620 and Plymouth Rock fame. together, they created a tectonic-level change in what churches did, ultimately laying out the foundations of what was to become the United States.

For fun, you can also research the Mayflower Compact.
 
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Your church history knowledge should include the Anabaptists. Without them, we would not have adult baptism for believers, Baptist churches, and ultimately, the Pilgrims of 1620 and Plymouth Rock fame. together, they created a tectonic-level change in what churches did, ultimately laying out the foundations of what was to become the United States.

For fun, you can also research the Mayflower Compact.
The Anabaptist were a sect that was largely heterodox or was even heretical in their doctrine.

The Puritans (there is nothing pure about their Calvinistic doctrine) are a heterodox sect they were schismatics that broke from the Anglicans church. In their quest to be as un-Catholic as possible, they ceased to be catholic at all.

All “Baptist” are heterodox churches, mere symbolism is not taught in sacred scripture.

Thread 'Holy Baptism according to Sacred Scripture'

 
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Faithful, knowledgeable, Church-loving, Catholic Author Peter Kreeft
quote
"How do I resolve the Reformation?​
Is it faith alone that justifies, or is it faith and works?​
Very simple. No tricks.​
On this issue I believe Luther was simply right; and this issue is absolutely crucial.​
As a Catholic I feel guilt for the tragedy of Christian disunity because the church in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was failing to preach the gospel.
Whatever theological mistakes Luther made, whatever indispensable truths about the Church he denied, here is an indispensable truth he affirmed — indispensable to union between all sinners and God and union between God’s separated Catholic and Protestant children."​
end quote
Sadly, as a Confession Lutheran, I would say that which followed after Luther was not good. In fact our confessions strongly condemned and reject those who followed (e.g. Calvinism). In there quest to be as un-catholic as possible, they ceased to be catholic at all.

You don’t have the fullness of the church without the Sacraments (e.g. Holy baptism (baptism regeneration), Holy communion (corporal blood & body) private confession & Holy absolution…). There is a good reason why confessional Lutherans are closed off and distance themselves from Protestantism (e.g. Baptist, Presbyterians, etc.) and have close communion. Lutherans don’t want to come across as have anything to do with their heterodoxy.

What came after Luther, outside the Lutheran Reformation was not good, Calvin and Zwingli created unnecessary disunity. Luther didn’t set out to start something “new” after he was kick out. In fact Lutherans were holding out hope for some kind of reconciliation up until Council of Trent. After Trent they knew they were in it the long-haul. So, the Lutheran church carried on.

As far as faith and works.

There seems to be a shift in how Roman Catholic apologist approached the subject of justification or at least how they package it (e.g. initial justification is by grace and faith alone, meritorious works are a increase in faith, etc.). They are most certainly not pulling out the Baltimore catechism with Protestants.

The role of works do plays a role in the final judgement. Scripturally, there is a judgment according to demonstrative works. Just read 1 corinthians, etc. but are sanctifying works are not the cause of salvation.

Apology of the Augsburg Confession: art. xx, par. 91

89 The adversaries also add references to their own condemnation, and it is worthwhile to provide several of them. They quote from 2 Peter 1:10, “Be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure.” Now you see, reader, that our adversaries have not wasted any effort in learning logic, but have the art of concluding whatever pleases them from the Scriptures. For they conclude, “Make your calling sure by good works.” Therefore, they think that works merit the forgiveness of sins. This is a very nice way of thinking, if one would argue this way about a person whose death sentence had been pardoned: “The judge commands that from now on you stop stealing from others. Therefore, you have earned the pardon from the punishment, because you no longer steal from others.” 90 To argue in this way makes a cause out of no cause. Peter speaks of works following the forgiveness of sins and teaches why they should be done. They should be done so that the calling may be sure, that is, should they fall from their calling if they sin again. Do good works in order that you may persevere in your calling, in order that you do not lose the gifts of your calling. They were given to you before, and not because of works that follow, and which now are kept through faith. Faith does not remain in those who lose the Holy Spirit and reject repentance. As we have said before (Article XII 1), faith exists in repentance.
91 They add other references that make no more sense. Finally, they say that this opinion was condemned a thousand years before, in Augustine’s time. This also is quite false. For Christ’s Church always held that the forgiveness of sins is received freely. Indeed, the Pelagians were condemned. They argued that grace is given because of our works. 92 Besides, we have shown above well enough that we hold that good works should follow faith. “Do we then overthrow the law?” asks Paul. “On the contrary, we uphold the law” (Romans 3:31), because when we have received the Holy Spirit through faith, the fulfilling of the Law necessarily follows. Patience, chastity, and other fruit of the Spirit gradually grow by this love.

https://bookofconcord.org/apology-of-the-augsburg-confession/article-xx/#ap-xx-0089

A baptized saint who is living by faith is capable and able to do good works and they do good works. A baptized saint lives in daily repentance and faith.

Honestly, it would be good to see all non-liturgical, non-sacramental churches die off (e.g. Baptist, Presbyterians American Evangelicalism, “New Calvinism”, Calvinism) and brought into sacramental churches. The only viable Protestant churches are confessional Lutheranism or high church Anglo Catholics.

—————

The Lutheran study Bible had a interesting note which I agree with on the extreme Protestant revulsion toward ritual, tradition, and legalism.

Ritual and Devotion

The Books of Moses demonstrate close unity between the ritual acts of religion and sincere devotion. The ritual is devotion. For example, consider the close relationships between the following: (1) covenant ritual with loyalty, love, and trust; (2) ritual vows with peace; (3) ritual sacrifices with forgiveness and atonement; and (4) ritual cleanliness with holiness. These features illustrate the unity and antiquity of the Books of Moses as well as their relationship to later biblical writings. (The Books of Moses do not raise great concerns about empty ritual, later raised by Joshua [24:15–25] and decried by the prophets [e.g., Is 1:10–17; 29:13; 66:3–4; Am 4:4–5; 5:21–24; Mal 1:6–14].)

Radical criticism of the Books of Moses, which chopped them up into primitive religion and later, priestly religion, failed to recognize this essential unity between ritual and devotion. In part, the critical approach can be traced to extreme Protestant revulsion toward ritual, tradition, and legalism. The attitude that attacked medieval Christianity for its outward, ritual expressions of faith became secularized during the Enlightenment. This critical attitude was then turned on the Scriptures, giving birth to radical criticism of the Bible and the destruction of Christianity in much of Europe. (See Hummel, pp 19–31, 156–62.)

Sincere Christians should recognize the roots and the dangers of radically dividing between outward expressions of faith and inward devotion. God made us body and soul, and His Word applies to us body and soul. God’s people need both sincere faith and sincere ways to express that faith in the services of the Church. They likewise always need both of God’s messages: Law and Gospel."
 
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The Anabaptist were a sect that was largely heterodox or was even heretical in their doctrine.

The Puritans (there is nothing pure about their Calvinistic doctrine) are a heterodox sect they were schismatics that broke from the Anglicans church. In their quest to be as un-Catholic as possible, they ceased to be catholic at all.

All “Baptist” are heterodox churches, mere symbolism is not taught in sacred scripture.

You need to read lots more church history. ALL details in the post leading from being a Puritan, to Anabaptist teaching to eventually becoming Baptists are easily verified by a simple web search.

Therefore, please do not try to burden me with your unlearned presuppositions. However, if you do not want to learn something new, then do not bother to tell me I am wrong, but have no data to back up your erroneous assumptions.

I included these links to prevent you from creating something having ZERO historical support as you did previously. BTW let the record CLEARLY demonstrate that it was YOU, not me who derailed your OWN OP with this post:

VDMA said:


The Anabaptist were a sect that was largely heterodox or was even heretical in their doctrine.

The Puritans (there is nothing pure about their Calvinistic doctrine) are a heterodox sect they were schismatics that broke from the Anglicans church. In their quest to be as un-Catholic as possible, they ceased to be catholic at all.

All “Baptist” are heterodox churches, mere symbolism is not taught in sacred scripture.

In the light of what you wrote, pasted above, do you not think that is totally silly to blame little old me for YOUR OWN WORDS as well as your incorrect assumptions therein?

Please follow these links and educate yourself:

Anabaptist .https://www.britannica.com/topic/Anabaptists
Mayflower Compact https://www.britannica.com/topic/Mayflower-Compact .https://studenthandouts.com/texts/historical-documents/mayflower-compact.htm
Baptist church history .https://www.britannica.com/topic/Baptist https://www.britannica.com/place/United-States/Cultural-and-religious-development
Oliver Cromwell .https://www.britannica.com/biography/Oliver-Cromwell


Honestly it would be great if posters had history backing up the tenets contained in their highly inaccurate rants.
 
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You need to read lots more church history. ALL details in the post leading from being a Puritan, to Anabaptist teaching to eventually becoming Baptists are easily verified by a simple web search.

Therefore, please do not try to burden me with your unlearned presuppositions. However, if you do not want to learn something new, then do not bother to tell me I am wrong, but have no data to back up your erroneous assumptions.

I included these links to prevent you from creating something having ZERO historical support as you did previously

Anabaptist .https://www.britannica.com/topic/Anabaptists
Mayflower Compact https://www.britannica.com/topic/Mayflower-Compact .https://studenthandouts.com/texts/historical-documents/mayflower-compact.htm
Baptist church history .https://www.britannica.com/topic/Baptist https://www.britannica.com/place/United-States/Cultural-and-religious-development
Oliver Cromwell .https://www.britannica.com/biography/Oliver-Cromwell


Honestly it would be great if posters had history backing up the tenets contained in their rants.
What your point? The thread was about the 500 Year Anniversary of the Diet of Worms, not about some novel non historic 1689 Baptist or “Puritans.
 
The thread was about the 500 Year Anniversary of the Diet of Worms,

Eventually ALL threads get derailed. This is not something new.
not about some novel non historic 1689 Baptist or “Puritans.
They ARE historical. That is why I was able to post information from Encyclopedia Britannica. But if you do not want to learn something new from a non-biased source such as Britannica, you are free to perpetuate your fictions such as you responded to HERE that remains on you, not me.
 
Luther would not the too thrilled with heterodoxy that came our of the “Reformation” Baptist/Presbyterians or America Evangelicalism. In fact there was only one real reformation~ the Lutheran reformation.
The point of the OP is that the Diet of Worms was a pivotal point to the Reformation.
 
Eventually ALL threads get derailed. This is not something new.

They ARE historical. That is why I was able to post information from Encyclopedia Britannica. But if you do not want to learn something new from a non-biased source such as Britannica, you are free to perpetuate your fictions such as you responded to HERE that remains on you, not me.
For the record, you guys are using historical in different contexts. One is historical in the sense it can be traced back through the centuries before the time of their unique doctrines, and the other that they are historical from the time of asserting unique doctrine.

The second context is based a link you provided. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Anabaptists
 
The point of the OP is that the Diet of Worms was a pivotal point to the Reformation.
Yes. The early days were something else since Luther had no idea what he had gotten himself into until the Papal Bull Exsurge Domine. In a way he was a bit like Mr. Magoo.

Martin Brecht's Martin Luther, His Road To Reformation is a great read, as is the rest of his three volume biography of Luther.
 
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