9 Points of the One True Church

Theo1689

Well-known member
Perhaps you could give us some examples of what is found in the Biblical text--which isn't found in the LDS church?

Glad you asked!

Nine Points of the True Christian Church


  1. The true Christian church teaches monotheism, the belief that only one God exists, and that is the God who we worship (Deut. 4:35,39, 1 Kings 8:60, Isa. 43:10, 44:6,8, 45:5,21,22, 46:9, John 17:3, 1 Cor. 8:4-6, etc.)

  1. The true Christian church teaches that God is a Trinity. This is simply a recognition that while there only exists one God, that God exists in the form of three different “persons” (ie. “identities”). The Father is God (Matt. 5:16), the Son is God (John 1:1), the Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3,4). The term “God” here is not used as a name (for it is not), but simply for the type of being He is (ie. “deity”). God’s name is actually “YHWH”, sometimes called the “Tetragrammaton”, and sometimes used in the form of “Yahweh” or “Jehovah”.

  1. The true Christian church must teach that God is spirit (John 4:24), and that a spirit doesn’t have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). Further, Scriptures plainly and repeatedly teach that “God is not a man” (Num. 23:19, 1 Sam. 15:29, Job 9:32). God is invisible (Col. 1:15, 1 Tim. 1:17, Heb. 11:27). Far from God and man being the same “species”, God is Creator, and man the creature (creation) (Gen. 1:27, Eph. 2:10, etc.). Jesus, who is God, took on a body of flesh, and the reason He needed to take on a body is precisely because a physical body is not part of inherent nature of God.

  1. The true Christian church teaches that salvation is wholly of God, all of grace, and “not by works” (Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-5, Rom. 9:11,16, Rom. 11:5-6, etc.). True Christians will do works, but these works are the “fruits” of our salvation, and are the result of a person being saved, not some “requirement” for them to be saved.

  1. The true Christian church no longer has human “prophets” (Heb. 1:1-2, Luke 16:16-31, Matt. 11:13). Instead of one man speaking for God to the people, God has given all of His people the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1-19, cf. Joel 2:28-29, Num. 11:29). God now speaks to all of His people directly, and no longer speaks through a secondary person.

  1. The true Christian church is apostolic, and conforms to the teaching of Christ’s 1st century apostles. There is only one set of apostles, and they are those who qualify according to Acts 1:21-22, being a firsthand witness of Christ’s ministry, death and resurrection. Unless one is 2000 years old, no authentic “apostles” qualify today. The Bible teaches that the church is built on the foundation (laid once) of (Old Testament) prophets and (New Testament) apostles.

  1. The true Christian church has elders, qualified as per the teachings of Paul in his epistles to Timothy and Titus (1 Tim. 3:2,12, Titus 1:5-6). They are older, more mature Christians (not “teenagers”), men who are monogamously married (“the husband of one wife”), with well-behaved children, and who have demonstrated the ability to run a household well.

  1. The true Christian church teaches that marriage is a temporary, earthly relationship (Rom. 7:2,3, 1 Cor. 7:39). There is no marriage in heaven (Matt. 22:30). Actually, there is only one eternal marriage, only one “marriage in heaven”, that is taught in the Bible, and that is the metaphorical marriage of the Lamb (Rev. 19:7-9), Christ the bridegroom, and the church, His bride (2 Cor. 11:2)

  1. The true Christian church must recognize the right of the pastor/teacher/minister to be paid (1 Cor. 9:7-12), and the duty of those who receive spiritual education and encouragement to financially support their teachers (1 Tim. 5:17-18). This principle is taught all the way from the Torah (Deut. 25:4, and in fact goes back to the Israelites financially supporting their priests through their tithes)), confirmed by the teachings of Jesus (Luke 10:7), and continues as an apostolic teaching (1 Cor. 9:7-12, 1 Tim. 5:17-18)

  1. God is unchanging (Mal. 3:6), He is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Heb. 13:8). He has always been perfect, omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. God has never had to “learn” anything new, as He is omniscient, and knows the end from the beginning (Isa. 46:10). He has never “progressed”, as He has never been anything less than God. He will never “progress”, for He is already perfect and divine.




    Mormons generally respond to these questions by ignoring the passages in question and going to their own rehearsed "proof-texts". I hope this is not the tack taken, as that implies a rejection of those Scriptures in question.

    I look forward to a thoughtful response.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Funny thing... A poster can't edit his own OP.
I just noticed that the numbered list was wrong, but I can't fix it.

Oh well....
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Glad you asked!

Nine Points of the True Christian Church


  1. The true Christian church teaches monotheism, the belief that only one God exists, and that is the God who we worship (Deut. 4:35,39, 1 Kings 8:60, Isa. 43:10, 44:6,8, 45:5,21,22, 46:9, John 17:3, 1 Cor. 8:4-6, etc.)
Don't worry about the numbering, Theo--I will start with number 1.

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

So--do you consider separating out God the Son from the "one God" is monotheism--in your theology?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Glad you asked!

Nine Points of the True Christian Church


  1. The true Christian church teaches monotheism, the belief that only one God exists, and that is the God who we worship (Deut. 4:35,39, 1 Kings 8:60, Isa. 43:10, 44:6,8, 45:5,21,22, 46:9, John 17:3, 1 Cor. 8:4-6, etc.)

  1. The true Christian church teaches that God is a Trinity. This is simply a recognition that while there only exists one God, that God exists in the form of three different “persons” (ie. “identities”). The Father is God (Matt. 5:16), the Son is God (John 1:1), the Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3,4). The term “God” here is not used as a name (for it is not), but simply for the type of being He is (ie. “deity”). God’s name is actually “YHWH”, sometimes called the “Tetragrammaton”, and sometimes used in the form of “Yahweh” or “Jehovah”.

  1. The true Christian church must teach that God is spirit (John 4:24), and that a spirit doesn’t have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). Further, Scriptures plainly and repeatedly teach that “God is not a man” (Num. 23:19, 1 Sam. 15:29, Job 9:32). God is invisible (Col. 1:15, 1 Tim. 1:17, Heb. 11:27). Far from God and man being the same “species”, God is Creator, and man the creature (creation) (Gen. 1:27, Eph. 2:10, etc.). Jesus, who is God, took on a body of flesh, and the reason He needed to take on a body is precisely because a physical body is not part of inherent nature of God.

  1. The true Christian church teaches that salvation is wholly of God, all of grace, and “not by works” (Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-5, Rom. 9:11,16, Rom. 11:5-6, etc.). True Christians will do works, but these works are the “fruits” of our salvation, and are the result of a person being saved, not some “requirement” for them to be saved.

  1. The true Christian church no longer has human “prophets” (Heb. 1:1-2, Luke 16:16-31, Matt. 11:13). Instead of one man speaking for God to the people, God has given all of His people the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1-19, cf. Joel 2:28-29, Num. 11:29). God now speaks to all of His people directly, and no longer speaks through a secondary person.

  1. The true Christian church is apostolic, and conforms to the teaching of Christ’s 1st century apostles. There is only one set of apostles, and they are those who qualify according to Acts 1:21-22, being a firsthand witness of Christ’s ministry, death and resurrection. Unless one is 2000 years old, no authentic “apostles” qualify today. The Bible teaches that the church is built on the foundation (laid once) of (Old Testament) prophets and (New Testament) apostles.

  1. The true Christian church has elders, qualified as per the teachings of Paul in his epistles to Timothy and Titus (1 Tim. 3:2,12, Titus 1:5-6). They are older, more mature Christians (not “teenagers”), men who are monogamously married (“the husband of one wife”), with well-behaved children, and who have demonstrated the ability to run a household well.

  1. The true Christian church teaches that marriage is a temporary, earthly relationship (Rom. 7:2,3, 1 Cor. 7:39). There is no marriage in heaven (Matt. 22:30). Actually, there is only one eternal marriage, only one “marriage in heaven”, that is taught in the Bible, and that is the metaphorical marriage of the Lamb (Rev. 19:7-9), Christ the bridegroom, and the church, His bride (2 Cor. 11:2)

  1. The true Christian church must recognize the right of the pastor/teacher/minister to be paid (1 Cor. 9:7-12), and the duty of those who receive spiritual education and encouragement to financially support their teachers (1 Tim. 5:17-18). This principle is taught all the way from the Torah (Deut. 25:4, and in fact goes back to the Israelites financially supporting their priests through their tithes)), confirmed by the teachings of Jesus (Luke 10:7), and continues as an apostolic teaching (1 Cor. 9:7-12, 1 Tim. 5:17-18)

  1. God is unchanging (Mal. 3:6), He is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Heb. 13:8). He has always been perfect, omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. God has never had to “learn” anything new, as He is omniscient, and knows the end from the beginning (Isa. 46:10). He has never “progressed”, as He has never been anything less than God. He will never “progress”, for He is already perfect and divine.




    Mormons generally respond to these questions by ignoring the passages in question and going to their own rehearsed "proof-texts". I hope this is not the tack taken, as that implies a rejection of those Scriptures in question.

    I look forward to a thoughtful response.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Glad you asked!

Nine Points of the True Christian Church

3.The true Christian church must teach that God is spirit (John 4:24), and that a spirit doesn’t have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).
So--are you claiming Jesus Christ isn't God---as He does have a body of flesh and bones:

Luke 24:39---King James Version
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Glad you asked!

Nine Points of the True Christian Church

  1. The true Christian church teaches that salvation is wholly of God, all of grace, and “not by works” (Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-5, Rom. 9:11,16, Rom. 11:5-6, etc.). True Christians will do works, but these works are the “fruits” of our salvation, and are the result of a person being saved, not some “requirement” for them to be saved.
The scriptures have something to say about that:

Matthew 7:19---King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

So--how can fruits be excluded from salvation--when the scriptures testify those without fruits are cast into the fire?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Don't worry about the numbering, Theo--I will start with number 1.

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

So--do you consider separating out God the Son from the "one God" is monotheism--in your theology?

So this is a PERFECT example of Mormons RUNNING AWAY from Biblical Scripture.
I gave a number of citations in that point, and you ignored ALL of them.

Please address the following:

Deut. 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

Deut. 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Deut. 32:39   See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me:

2 Sam. 7:22 Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

2 Sam. 22:32 For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?

1 Kings 8:60 That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

1 Chr. 17:20 O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

2 Chr. 15:3 Now for a long season Israel hath been without the true God, and without a teaching priest, and without law.

Isa. 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isa. 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. 7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them. 8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea,there is no God; I know not any.

Is. 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Is. 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Isa. 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

Jer. 10:10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

Joel 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

1Cor. 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Not to mention Alma 11:27-29, Alma 11:44, Alma 14:5, Moses 1:6


But you keep RUNNING AWAY from all those passages!
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Glad you asked!

Nine Points of the True Christian Church

1.The true Christian church no longer has human “prophets” (Heb. 1:1-2, Luke 16:16-31, Matt. 11:13). Instead of one man speaking for God to the people, God has given all of His people the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1-19, cf. Joel 2:28-29, Num. 11:29). God now speaks to all of His people directly, and no longer speaks through a secondary person.
Since when?

Acts 15:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.

Acts 21:10-11---King James Version (KJV)
10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

Acts 11:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

Acts 13:1----King James Version (KJV)
1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

You do realize that was years following the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
The scriptures have something to say about that:

Matthew 7:19---King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

So--how can fruits be excluded from salvation--when the scriptures testify those without fruits are cast into the fire?
Nice straw-man.

We DON'T "exclude fruits from salvation".

Works simply come AFTER salvation, not some "prerequisite" BRINGING salvation, which is the false teaching you spew.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Since when?

Acts 15:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.

Acts 21:10-11---King James Version (KJV)
10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

Acts 11:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

Acts 13:1----King James Version (KJV)
1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

You do realize that was years following the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

<sigh>

And again, here you are IGNORING:

Heb. 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. 18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Matt. 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:


Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.


Num. 11:29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD’S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!



Mormons constantly RUN AWAY from Scripture.
Mormons HATE the Bible!
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Glad you asked!

Nine Points of the True Christian Church

  1. The true Christian church is apostolic, and conforms to the teaching of Christ’s 1st century apostles. There is only one set of apostles, and they are those who qualify according to Acts 1:21-22, being a firsthand witness of Christ’s ministry, death and resurrection. Unless one is 2000 years old, no authentic “apostles” qualify today. The Bible teaches that the church is built on the foundation (laid once) of (Old Testament) prophets and (New Testament) apostles.
I believe what you mean is--your church does not have any living, mortal apostles.

Theo--the NT church had living, mortal apostles--in fact--this is the testimony of the scriptures:

Ephesians 2:20---King James Version
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

And here is what the church of Jesus Christ experiences though the living apostles:

SECTION 110

Visions manifested to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Oliver Cowdery in the temple at Kirtland, Ohio, April 3, 1836. The occasion was that of a Sabbath day meeting. Joseph Smiths history states: In the afternoon, I assisted the other Presidents in distributing the Lords Supper to the Church, receiving it from the Twelve, whose privilege it was to officiate at the sacred desk this day. After having performed this service to my brethren, I retired to the pulpit, the veils being dropped, and bowed myself, with Oliver Cowdery, in solemn and silent prayer. After rising from prayer, the following vision was opened to both of us.


D&C 110
1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachitestifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
So--are you claiming Jesus Christ isn't God---as He does have a body of flesh and bones:

Luke 24:39---King James Version
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Um, you didn't address the point. You simply IGNORED the Scripture, and pretended that it didn't exist.

Here it is AGAIN:

3.The true Christian church must teach that God is spirit (John 4:24), and that a spirit doesn’t have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).


Your point about Jesus is irrelevant, since He took on a body of flesh and bone when he "become man".

(Please note another contradiction:

Mormonism: "Man becomes [a] god".
Christianity: "God became a man.")


Noting Jesus' flesh doesn't prove that "God" (ie. the Father) is flesh.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
The scriptures have something to say about that:

Matthew 7:19---King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

So--how can fruits be excluded from salvation--when the scriptures testify those without fruits are cast into the fire?

Once AGAIN, you RUN AWAY from Eph. 2:8-9...
Once AGAIN, you RUN AWAY from 2 Tim. 1:9...
Once AGAIN, you RUN AWAY from Tit. 3:5...
Once AGAIN, you RUN AWAY from Rom. 4:1-5...
Once AGAIN, you RUN AWAY from Rom. 9:11,16...
Once AGAIN, you RUN AWAY from Rom. 11:5-6...

You seem unable to post without IGNORING multiple Bible passages!
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I believe what you mean is--your church does not have any living, mortal apostles.

Theo--the NT church had living, mortal apostles--in fact--this is the testimony of the scriptures:

Ephesians 2:20---King James Version
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Mormons constantly MISINTERPRET that passage.

The "foundation of THE apostles and prophets" is referring to (1) the OT prophets, and (2) the first century 12 Apostles, which were NOT replaced (with the single exception of Judas).

So this verse does NOT nullify all the passages that *I* quoted, that YOU ran away from.


And here is what the church of Jesus Christ experiences though the living apostles:

SECTION 110

Visions manifested to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Oliver Cowdery ...

Yeah, sorry... Not interested in garbage.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Glad you asked!

Nine Points of the True Christian Church
  1. God is unchanging (Mal. 3:6), He is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Heb. 13:8). He has always been perfect, omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. God has never had to “learn” anything new, as He is omniscient, and knows the end from the beginning (Isa. 46:10). He has never “progressed”, as He has never been anything less than God. He will never “progress”, for He is already perfect and divine.

I have a question here.

If God is unchanging--did He institute marriage and the family?

1 Corinthians 11:11---King James Version
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I have a question here.

If God is unchanging--did He institute marriage and the family?

"If"?!

"God is unchanging (Mal. 3:6), He is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Heb. 13:8)."

Mal. 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.


Thank you for admitting that you reject the Bible!


1 Corinthians 11:11---King James Version
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

I'm not sure what your point is.

Marriage doesn't "change" who God is.
You seem VERY confused.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Mormons constantly MISINTERPRET that passage.

The "foundation of THE apostles and prophets" is referring to (1) the OT prophets, and (2) the first century 12 Apostles, which were NOT replaced (with the single exception of Judas).
So--what about these prophets?

Acts 15:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.

Acts 21:10-11---King James Version (KJV)
10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

Acts 11:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

Acts 13:1----King James Version (KJV)
1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

Do you have the living, mortal apostles and prophets in your church? It formed the foundation of the NT church. You claimed God does not change?

The LDS do. They have the living, mortal apostles and prophets.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
So--what about these prophets?

Acts 15:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.

Acts 21:10-11---King James Version (KJV)
10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

Acts 11:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

Acts 13:1----King James Version (KJV)
1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

Are they 1st century prophets, or 21st century prophets?

Do you have the living, mortal apostles and prophets in your church? It formed the foundation of the NT church. You claimed God does not change?

Nope. I didn't claim that God does not change.
GOD claimed it.
I simply believe Him. And you simply DON'T believe Him.

Mal. 3:6For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

Doing something does NOT "change" who you are.

If I go to work on Monday, I'm still the same person.
If I buy groceries, I am still the same person.
If God chooses not to continue prophets after Christ, that doesn't "change" who He is.

You seem VERY confused.

The LDS do. They have the living, mortal apostles and prophets.

Yes, in DIRECT contradiction to the Bible.
That was kind of the point of my OP, from which you RAN AWAY from the supporting Scriptures, as you ALWAYS do.
 
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