9 Points of the One True Church

dberrie2020

Well-known member
If Jesus is the "one God"--then why was He separated out from the "one God" of the Biblical NT?

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Never did any NT apostle include Jesus Christ into the "one God" of the NT. In fact--the apostles testified the "one God" was the God and Father of God the Son.

1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Bump for Theo
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Bump for Theo

Why are you "bumping" for me?
First of all, it's insulting.
I am not your "slave".
I am not your "dog", who comes on demand.
Get over yourself, and try to show some respect for others.

I ALREADY answered that post (which you are simply wasting everyone's time reposting ten million times) here:

If you don't like the answer, tough cookies.
The answer isn't going to change, just because you don't like it.
So get over yourself.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Ah, dragging in Heiser, again. I have noticed that Mormons tend to fall back on him, when backed into a corner, or unable to defend their heretical beliefs. As I have pointed out, Heiser is NOT the Bible. He is just one scholar. Not all biblical scholars agree with his conclusions.
Bonnie--this is the Bible:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Never did any NT apostle include Jesus Christ into the "one God" of the NT. In fact--the apostles testified the "one God" was the God and Father of God the Son.

1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Care to engage those Biblical scriptures? Explain for us why they don't match faith alone theology?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Bonnie--this is the Bible:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Never did any NT apostle include Jesus Christ into the "one God" of the NT. In fact--the apostles testified the "one God" was the God and Father of God the Son.

1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Care to engage those Biblical scriptures? Explain for us why they don't match faith alone theology?

<sigh>

For the SIXTH time, they were all answered HERE:

 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
For the SIXTH time, they were all answered HERE:

Nope. Not letting you be Bonnie's spokesman. You have your hands full here--already.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
She can speak for herself.
Then let's allow her to do so.

Bonnie??


Bonnie--this is in the Bible:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Never did any NT apostle include Jesus Christ into the "one God" of the NT. In fact--the apostles testified the "one God" was the God and Father of God the Son.

1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Care to engage those Biblical scriptures? Explain for us why they don't match faith alone theology?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Nope. Not letting you be Bonnie's spokesman. You have your hands full here--already.
Theo and I have known each other for YEARS. He can speak for me on here, if he likes. He is usually correct. If he is not, I can always correct him. :)

This thread is not about faith alone theology. This board is for discussing all things LDS. If you wish to discuss these verses and faith alone, I will be happy to do so on the Apologetics board. NOT here. I have discussed these verses many times with you on CARM over the years, dealing with your points and answered your questions...But I got mostly points nos. 3 and 4 from you, in return, on my list in my signature.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Then let's allow her to do so.

Bonnie??

Please do NOT disrespect a lady by "calling" her as if she were some sort of pet.

She is perfectly capable of responding if she likes.

And I hate to break it to you, but many times your posts AREN'T worth "responding" to.
So please get over yourself, and learn to respect others.

I hope you don't treat your wife, mother, or daughters as rudely as you treat people here.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Theo--I think I know why you don't understand people having fun here. You don't seem to be having a lot of fun.

I get offended when people disrespect a lady.

You're a Mormon, so I get why you don't understand it.
Maybe you should stop trying to defend your behaviour.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
This thread is not about faith alone theology. This board is for discussing all things LDS.
This is LDS theology:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Never did any NT apostle include God the Son into the "one God" of the NT. In fact--the apostles testified the "one God" was the God and Father of God the Son.

1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

It just so happens to violate faith alone theology. Fits LDS theology well. Biblical NT theology fits LDS theology. It defies the theology pawned here.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
This is LDS theology:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Never did any NT apostle include God the Son into the "one God" of the NT. In fact--the apostles testified the "one God" was the God and Father of God the Son.

1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

It just so happens to violate faith alone theology. Fits LDS theology well. Biblical NT theology fits LDS theology. It defies the theology pawned here.
These verses have nothing to do with faith alone. But nonetheless, we believe them, too.

But these verses sure violate the rampant polytheism in mormonism:


Yet Jesus is clearly called God, and so is the HS...yet the Bible constantly asserts that there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD. Ergo, the Triune Godhead. IN some way we cannot fully fathom with our finite minds, this side of heaven, God is One Being composed of three separate Identities/Consciences. How God can do that--I do not know. But "with man it is indeed impossible, but WITH GOD, NOTHING is impossible."

God is not held captive to our finite ability to UNDERSTAND Him, this side of heaven.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
These verses have nothing to do with faith alone. But nonetheless, we believe them, too.
So--you believe God the Son is separated out from the "one God" of the Biblical NT? And the "one God" is the God and Father of Jesus Christ?

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
But these verses sure violate the rampant polytheism in mormonism:
Would you say the same thing about the Biblical testimony?

Psalm 82:1---English Standard Version
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

Bonnie--as the scholars now testify to--the Divine Council theme runs throughout the Biblical text.


ABSTRACT THE DIVINE COUNCIL AND ISRAELITE MONOTHEISM MASTER OF THEOLOGY APRIL 2005 ANDREW R. McGINN UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF PROFESSOR MARK J. BODA AT THE McMASTER DIVINITY COLLEGE, McMASTER UNIVERSITY---https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/13689/1/fulltext.pdf

The Old Testament contains a number of depictions of a divine councilor assembly of the gods in the heavens. Several of these scenes form episodic narratives that provide a window into the divine realm and insight into the workings of the heavenly court.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
So--you believe God the Son is separated out from the "one God" of the Biblical NT? And the "one God" is the God and Father of Jesus Christ?

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Jesus is both God and man. They are the One God, in Three Persons, along with the HS.

But here are verses that show that faith/grace alone is what the Bible teaches:

1. And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.” (Genesis 15:6, ESV)
2. “Our God is a God who saves; from the Sovereign LORD comes escape from death.” (Psalm 68:20, ESV)
3. “LORD, you are the God who saves me; day and night I cry out to you.” (Psalm 88:1, NIV)
4. “We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.” (Isaiah 64:6, ESV)
5. “Look, his ego is inflated; he is without integrity. But the righteous one will live by his faith.” (Habakkuk 2:4, HCSB)
6. “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” (Matthew 26:28, NIV)
7. “Jesus said to the woman, ‘Your faith has saved you; go in peace.’” (Luke 7:50, NIV)
8. “Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.” (John 1:12, NIV)
9. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16, NKJV)
10. “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” (John 3:18, NKJV)
11. “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.” (John 5:24, ESV)
12. “Jesus answered, ‘The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent’.” (John 6:29, NIV)
13. “Then Jesus declared, ‘I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty’.” (John 6:35, NIV)
14. “He [Jesus] said, ‘It is finished!’” (John 19:30, NKJV)
15. “By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through him that has completely healed him, as you can all see.” (Acts: 3:16, NIV)
16. “And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Acts 16:31, ESV)
17. “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: ‘The righteous will live by faith’.” (Romans 1:16-17, NIV)
18. "Even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction." (Romans 3:22, NASB)


demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." (Romans 3:24-26, NKJV)
20. "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." (Romans 3:28, NIV)
21. "If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? ‘And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.’" (Romans 4:2-3, NIV)
22. “Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works” (Romans 4:4-6, ESV)
23. "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also" (Romans 4:11, NASB)
24. "So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe." (Romans 4:16, NLT)
25. "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." (Romans 5:1, NKJV)
26. “Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!” (Romans 5:9, NIV)
27. “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:3, NASB)
28. “It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.” (Romans 9:16, NIV)
29. "What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith" (Romans 9:30, NIV)

Part 1
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Part 2:

30. "Just as it is written, ‘Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed’.” (Romans 9:33, NASB)
31. "For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." (Romans 10:3-4, NASB)
32. "That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." (Romans 10:9-10, NKJV)
33. “For ‘everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved’.” (Romans 10:13, ESV)
34. "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." (Romans 11:6, ESV)
35. "Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified." (Galatians 2:16, NASB)
36. “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” (Galatians 2:21, NASB)
37. “I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?” (Galatians 3:2-3, NIV)
38. "So then, does God supply you with the Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law or by hearing with faith? Just as Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness, then understand that those who have faith are Abraham’s sons. Now the Scripture saw in advance that God would justify the Gentiles by faith and told the good news ahead of time to Abraham, saying, All the nations will be blessed through you. So those who have faith are blessed with Abraham, who had faith."(Galatians 3:5-9, HCSB)
39. “Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us.” (Galatians 3:11-12, NIV)
40. "In order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." (Galatians 3:14, NASB)
41. "But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe." (Galatians 3:22, ESV)
42. “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith." (Galatians 3:24, NKVJ)
43. “In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace.” (Ephesians 1:7, NIV)
. “Even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved.” (Ephesians 2:5, ESV)46. "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, Not a result of works, so that no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9, NKJV)
47. "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith." (Philippians 3:9, NASB)
48. “By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance.” (Hebrews 11:8, NKJV)
49. “These all died in faith without having received the promises, but they saw them from a distance, greeted them, and confessed that they were foreigners and temporary residents on the earth. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.” (Hebrews 11:13,16, HCSB)
50. “All these were approved through their faith, but they did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, so that they would not be made perfect without us. (Hebrews 11:39-40, HCSB)
51. "yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.“ (1 Timothy 1:16, NASB)
52. “He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.” (2 Timothy 1:9, NIV)
53. “He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.” (Titus 3:5, ESV)
54. “because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.” (Revelation 5:9, NIV)
55. “[Jesus] said to me, ‘It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give to the thirsty from the spring of living water as a gift’.” (Revelation 21:7, HCSB)

These verses demolish faith/grace plus works pseudo-Christian cult groups, that would add to the finished and perfect work of Christ on the cross, where our sins were nailed to His cross and taken out of the way. The cults would have that Jesus somehow needs our imperfect works to complete what He did for us on the cross.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Jesus is both God and man. They are the One God, in Three Persons, along with the HS.
The Biblical NT--when speaking specifically of the "one God"--separated out God the Son:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

And designated the "one God" as the God and Father of Jesus Christ.

The Lords were also separated out:

Matthew 22:44---King James Version
44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?


John 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be

Is that just more polytheism to you?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
But here are verses that show that faith/grace alone is what the Bible teaches:
Bonnie--just one note here. There is but one mention of "faith alone" found in the entire Biblical text:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
 
Top