A bizarre definition of morality from the guy who loves to tell us he's more moral than the God whom he supposedly doesn't believe exists

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Correct. Neither of us are omniscient. I just schooled you on that.
And so it begins.
Can you point to a bad that doesn't?
Can I point to a bad that doesn't balance out the bad of immense suffering? Is that what you meant to say? To answer though, no. No bad balance's out the bad we see in the world.
Can you tell me the current state of all those involved?
Yes. They're dead after enduring terrible suffering. This is much the same circumstance as we see today with many other diseases that still plague us. Still no sign of that good that comes from suffering that's in equal measure to the suffering.
EXACTLY. That's why I didn't say it.
Me: "So we are ennobled for helping the suffering of others, where if that suffering didn't exist, we wouldn't need the ennoblement that you think trumps the suffering".

You: "Correct... ."

I'm afraid you did.
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
"If He has a good reason, it is not needless to Him; only to you with your limited understanding."

Declaring "there is no such thing" doesn't cut it. You have no way of knowing that.
Yes, I DO have a way of knowing that there is no such thing as a "good reason" for God to permit/cause harm!

And it is because He is OMNIPOTENT

Please try to understand this, stiggy:

OMNIPOTENT beings do not ever, ever, ever have to permit/cause harm in order to achieve a greater good
When OMNIPOTENT beings choose to permit/cause harm it is always, always, always - by definition - needless

And to consciously and purposefully permit/cause needless harm upon others is immoral

Prove He can't allow temporary harm for permanent good.
Why are you asking me to prove a claim that I have never made?
Of course God can allow temporary harm for a permanent good!

My claim is that it is immoral to do so when the temporary harm is needless
And the temporary harm that God permits/causes is needless because He can achieve the permanent good WITHOUT the harm
 

Furion

Well-known member
That God doesn't stop suffering has been the subject all along, and you haven't discussed that at all, so that's what's left to discuss. Why haven't you discussed this?
I have been able to..

1. Got you to concede God exists.
2. Got you to concede man is to blame for starving children.

Now, what is your question?
 

Furion

Well-known member
Yo, Jimmy - care to take a break from tossing your very Christ-like insults and support your ridiculous claim that I am a hypocrite?
Men starve children, you are a man, you complaining about God starving children makes you a hypocrite, wood pole boy.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Men starve children, you are a man, you complaining about God starving children makes you a hypocrite, wood pole boy.
The ignorance in this post is not recognising that natural disaster contributes far more to famine than man does, and that God does nothing about it, along with him doing nothing about the starvation caused by man.
 

Furion

Well-known member
The ignorance in this post is not recognising that natural disaster contributes far more to famine than man does, and that God does nothing about it, along with him doing nothing about the starvation caused by man.
Men let others starve, silly. Is there something about that you don't understand?
 

treeplanter

Well-known member
Men starve children, you are a man, you complaining about God starving children makes you a hypocrite, wood pole boy.
Hypocrite = a person who indulges in hypocrisy

Hypocrisy = the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense

I believe it is evil to starve children
I don't personally starve children
That some men do starve children has no bearing on me, personally, whatsoever

Try again!

Furthermore, I am ultimately powerless to stop the men who starve children
God, on the other hand, could stop the men who starve children immediately , but He chooses not to

Explain!
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Men let others starve, silly. Is there something about that you don't understand?
No. But that God lets it happen, and that natural disaster that is out of man's control is far worst and God does nothing about it where he could, is something you don't understand.
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
And yet you think that God is incapable of "Instant Ennobling"??

Correct. Impersonal concrete nouns can be instantaneously created by God. Examples:

Instant horse!
Instant water!
Instant coffee!
Instant planet!
Instant universe!

Personal abstractions cannot. Examples:

Instant wisdom
Instant long suffering
Instant longevity
Instant victory
Instant Ennobling

Time is required.

Oh, and also:

Instant Treeplant being capable of understanding basic stuff like this
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
And so it begins.

It ended for you long ago..

No bad balance's out the bad we see in the world.

Prove it.

Still no sign of that good

Correct. Still no sign that the sun will rise tomorrow.

Me: "So we are ennobled for helping the suffering of others, where if that suffering didn't exist, we wouldn't need the ennoblement that you think trumps the suffering".

Me: "Correct, but we need it, so it exists."

Not a good idea to leave out the entirety of a quote when the quote is extant showing your dishonesty.
 
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