A bizarre definition of morality from the guy who loves to tell us he's more moral than the God whom he supposedly doesn't believe exists

[Lighthearted Atheist]

I see nothing in that website about 10,000 kids dying starving daily. And stop avoiding my question. What are YOU doing to help starving kids?

No - the UN article proved that claim. This just shows that there are so many children suffering that Christians mobilize to help them.

I would think this proves to your that many, many children are suffering.

But I suspect that this was never an honest question. You just cannot say it is loving to watch rape and starvation. So you question the 10,000. I answer that and you reject the entire United Nations. I send Christian sources and you do not accept them. When you run out of idea you gaslight and tell me I turn my backs on the suffering - which I never said.

You are not interested in evidence. You are interested in distracting from my question about why God watches kids starve - because there is no sane answer for that.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

No - the UN article proved that claim.

You mean it CLAIMED that claim.

You just cannot say it is loving to watch rape and starvation

You think it's loving to turn your back on rape and starvation because you don't want to WATCH. You have no heart.

So you question the 10,000.

Correct.

 

[4thrite]

I would have God hold individuals accountable for their own actions and NOT hold their innocent progeny accountable for actions that they did not commit!

Nobody is being held accountable for what Adam and Eve did. Are you? I am not.

But what about this: if you were in the garden, would you march right on up to that tree, grab a piece of fruit, wave it in God's face and take a big bite out of it?

Choosing to corrupt an entire race due the actions of the 1st two representatives is immoral

That is not what happened, Adam and Eve corrupted themselves and, having done so, could only pass their corrupted nature on to their children.

*Not that Adam and Eve, themselves, did anything wrong in the 1st place...

It seems reasonable enough to me that the One who created all things could say of one thing; "this is mine, don't touch it", and expect it to be left it alone. Simple respect dictates that we respect the property of another. Most people, I think, would consider that sort of disrespect wrong.

john

 

[4thrite]

Who is the “god of this world” (2 cor 4:4)?

Satan.

 

[4thrite]

Or, the more parsimonious explanation, he didn't do anything, and the world we experience came about naturally.

Before this world existed there was no "naturally".

john

 

[treeplanter]

Nobody is being held accountable for what Adam and Eve did. Are you? I am not.

Yes, you are!

You were born with a fallen, sinful nature that inevitably compels you to sin at least once - thus warranting your eternal damnation - and the reason why you were born with a sinful nature is because God, in a hissy fit over having been disobeyed by Adam and Eve, decided that each and every one of Adam and Eve's descendants shall be born at enmity with Him

But what about this: if you were in the garden, would you march right on up to that tree, grab a piece of fruit, wave it in God's face and take a big bite out of it?

That would suggest defiance

Adam and Eve were not acting defiantly

Adam and Eve corrupted themselves

Through no fault of their own

Adam and Eve had no concept of good/evil - right/wrong

and, having done so, could only pass their corrupted nature on to their children.

By God's choice

It was God who decided that A&E's 'corrupted' nature be inheritable and passed down to subsequent generations

 

[4thrite]

Any and all harm that God inflicts upon us towards the end of serving our best interest is, by definition, needless because God can always serve our best interest WITHOUT inflicting harm upon us!

That is your belief about God. I don't share it. I think that when God chose to allow men to create a world independent of him - and the suffering that would ensue because of them - that he made the best choice in dealing with the desire for independence. It will settle it for once and for all.

john

 

[4thrite]

Yes, you are!

You were born with a fallen, sinful nature that inevitably compels you to sin at least once - thus warranting your eternal damnation - and the reason why you were born with a sinful nature is because God, in a hissy fit over having been disobeyed by Adam and Eve, decided that each and every one of Adam and Eve's descendants shall be born at enmity with Him

I disagree with you about that.

Adam and Eve were not acting defiantly

They acted disrespectfully and took something that did not belong to them.

Through no fault of their own

Through their own choice.

Adam and Eve had no concept of good/evil - right/wrong

Of course they did or else the serpent's reference to good and evil would have meant nothing to Eve.

By God's choice

It was God who decided that A&E's 'corrupted' nature be inheritable and passed down to subsequent generations

I'll give you that one, God set the parameters of our existence: things you do have consequences.

john

 

[treeplanter]

That is your belief about God. I don't share it.

No, it's not MY belief - this is the logical extension of the CHRISTIAN belief in God!

Christians believe that God acts in our best interests
AND
Christians believe that God is Almighty and omnipotent
{i.e. able to serve our best interests without inflicting harm upon us}

I think that when God chose to allow men to create a world independent of him - and the suffering that would ensue because of them - that he made the best choice in dealing with the desire for independence. It will settle it for once and for all.

God didn't just 'allow' man to create a world independent of Him - God, Himself, CREATED, for us, a world wherein we are apart from Him and mired in suffering

The consequence of Adam and Eve disobeying God is not something that is naturally inheritable - God consciously and purposefully decided to hold us accountable for the actions of A&E

 

[treeplanter]

Through their own choice.

One must first possess knowledge of good and evil before one can choose between good and evil

A&E had no concept of good and evil

 

[4thrite]

No, it's not MY belief - this is the logical extension of the CHRISTIAN belief in God!

Christians believe that God acts in our best interests
AND
Christians believe that God is Almighty and omnipotent
{i.e. able to serve our best interests without inflicting harm upon us}

Since you are engaging in exegesis above, interpreting texts, you are in fact presenting to me your beliefs. The Bible plainly tells us that God subjected us to a period of futility and pain for the purpose of setting us free to corruption. (Romans 8: 20-22)

God didn't just 'allow' man to create a world independent of Him - God, Himself, CREATED, for us, a world wherein we are apart from Him and mired in suffering

We will have to disagree about that.

The consequence of Adam and Eve disobeying God is not something that is naturally inheritable - God consciously and purposefully decided to hold us accountable for the actions of A&E

Again, according to scripture, sin and death entered into the world through one man and then spread to all men. (Romans 5:12, 19)

john

 

[4thrite]

One must first possess knowledge of good and evil before one can choose between good and evil

A&E had no concept of good and evil

They had knowledge to not eat of the tree.

john

 

[treeplanter]

They had knowledge to not eat of the tree.

john

Yes, they knew the meaning of the word 'NO'

They did not, however, know that to disobey God is evil - any more than they could have known that to obey God is good

Like I said, they were as toddlers

 

[treeplanter]

Again, according to scripture, sin and death entered into the world through one man and then spread to all men. (Romans 5:12, 19)

And again, this is because God decided that it shall be this way

 

[4thrite]

Yes, they knew the meaning of the word 'NO'

They did not, however, know that to disobey God is evil - any more than they could have known that to obey God is good

Simple respect means that you don't take what belongs to another, no knowledge of evil required.

Like I said, they were as toddlers

That is a belief not supported by the facts.

john

 

[4thrite]

And again, this is because God decided that it shall be this way

Yes. Again.

john

 

[treeplanter]

Simple respect means that you don't take what belongs to another, no knowledge of evil required.

Being respectful is good
However, Adam and Eve had no concept of good

 

[treeplanter]

Yes. Again.

john

And this is immoral

It is immoral to inflict suffering upon the entire human race because the 1st two people were 'disrespectful'

 

[docphin5]

Satan.

So if the "god of this world" aka, Satan, can blind men from seeing the good news of salvation, then he can also subject the world to vanity. The true God and Father is the one who shall set creation free from corruption. Therefore, the better meaning of Romans 8 is below.

"To vanity was the creation made subject--not of its will, but because of him [Satan?] who did subject [it]. In hope, that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God [El]." Romans 8:18.

By the way, Catholicism taught for hundreds of years (and may still teach) that the "god of this world" is YHWH Elohim. IMO, you are both right, and Paul's "true God and Father" is "the Most High God", aka, El, who is freeing his children from the adversary of men, the adversary, who places a burden on men (the Mosaic Law) that no one can bear. IOW, everyone is condemned under the Mosaic Law but El has made a way to free them through his spirit, namely, Yeshua.

(Gal 3:19) "Why then the [Mosaic] law?

It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary...

Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."

 

[Lighthearted Atheist]

You mean it CLAIMED that claim.

They back the claim with their documented, empirical evidence.

You think it's loving to turn your back on rape and starvation because you don't want to WATCH. You have no heart.

This is a lie. I cannot call it an error any more since I have corrected you several times. So you are just lying now to prove God is real.

Thanks.