A bizarre definition of morality from the guy who loves to tell us he's more moral than the God whom he supposedly doesn't believe exists

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
Starvation and rape are aspects of a godless world.
Who created this godless world and put us in it? Who has the power to feed children? Who can sto prape and does not?

Suffering exists as part of God's plan.

You cannot make an omnipotent God blameless - its nonsensical.
Scripturally speaking this godless world is going to be allowed to exist until it reveals its true nature.
So God has chosen to have billions suffer instead of revealing our true nature now.

That's sadism.
Jesus gave us a clue as to what that means at Matthew 24:22 wherein he speaks of a time to come when "no flesh will be saved" except that the "days will be cut short".

What does that mean? It means that this godless world will bring us to the brink of total annilahation but that the days will be cut short before that happens. Two questions: who brings us to the brink of destruction and who cuts short the days?
God can end human suffering with a thought. Instead He keeps us in a godless world with suffering.

You have not changed that fact.
The godless world of starvation and rape is the world that determines to destroy us all; the God who created us is the One who saves us from them.
God does not save us from starvation and rape. He allows those.
He will allow this godless world of starvation and rape to exist up to the point where all life is imperilled and then he will step in and bring it to an end. And no one will be able to argue with it. And all of the victims of the world that he allowed to exist will be healed of all that they have experienced.

God allows all human suffering when he could easily stop it today.

I see nothing in your post that changes that. And I do not think causing suffering to billions is a good thing. You can believe cancer and starvation are signs of love if you like.

But you cannot make an omnipotent God innocent.


Well-known member
The wicked, from satan on down to his lowliest minion cannot do a wicked thing except that God has allowed them to exist. And God allows the wicked to exist for his purposes.

Take the example of Job, Jehovah allowed satan to do what he wanted with Job. He did not make satan mistreat Job, satan did so of his own nature and volition. Satan did what he did for his purposes - to turn Job away from Jehovah - and Jehovah allowed satan to act as he saw fit for his (Jehovah's) own purposes - to demonstrate that some people will remain faithful to Him no matter what.

In Eden, satan (the original serpent) did what he did to turn the human creation away from it's God and creator. So, he had his hopes. God allowed it to take place for his reasons. His reasons were the eventual freeing of mankind from the enslavement to corruption that satan had just enslaved mankind.

So satan did not subject mankind to corruption with the hope that they will one day be set free from corruption, his hope was eternal enslavement to corruption. Although he did, as you note above, subject humankind to enslavement to corruption.

But over and above that, God allowed it to happen, allowed mankind to become enslaved to corruption for his purposes: the freeing of mankind from satanic corruption.
That is an improvement of what you said before, although you have no idea who or what the Adversary is. In Job, the Adversary works for YHWH, doing his bidding, doing what YHWH commands him to do. Therefore, if YHWH commands the Adversary to cause suffering and death then YHWH is the cause of suffering and death. Which brings you right back to what you said before, "God subjected creation to futility in order to free it from futility" which is absurd.

No human Father would cause his children to suffer in order to free them from suffering. I suggest you "rinse and repeat" our discussion from the beginning (post #365), because you have missed an important piece of information. Otherwise, you will continue to speak absurd things about God.

This is where Reason and Evidence come into play. Without it, people are just saying confusing and contradictory things over and over. And atheists keep pointing it out. Then Christians keep using circular logic to defend their position as you have done just now and cannot understand why atheists don't buy into it. They don't buy into it because the system, the overarching systematic explanation from beginning to end, is absurd in the way it is being presented, in this case, YHWH causes suffering in order to heal it. What a great guy he must be, right? Wrong! Yet you don't see it, do you?

at Romans 8:20-22 wherein it acknowledges that it was God who subjected his human creation to futility and a groaning in pain together, but that he did so for a purpose namely, that his human creation will be set free from corruption and death and come to have the glorious freedom of the children of God. In other words, not needless.

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