A Calling

Carbon

Well-known member
It’s obvious there is an external and an internal call of the Spirit.

The external -
I have called and you refused Prov 1:24.

Many are called but few are chosen Matt 22:14.

The outward call of the Spirit is made in various ways. Through the proclamation of the gospel, through warning of ministers of the word, through friends, which awakens the natural conscience.
God instructs, warns and invites through His word. Instead of instant punishment there is mercy.
Yes the outward call goes out to all, and there are many who refuse. Proverbs 1: 24-28

Then there is that special, direct and effectual call by the Spirit, in the elect of God.
God said, I will put my Spirit within them.
Jesus said, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they shall live.

God has not poured out His wrath on man without first extending offering peace in the gospel call. Mercy has obviously preceded judgement. Even though, to the non elect it is ineffectual.

In the elect there is the effectual working of the Spirit.
Consider Paul’s words.
of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. Eph 3:7

For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe. 1 Thess 2:13.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
It’s obvious there is an external and an internal call of the Spirit.

The external -
I have called and you refused Prov 1:24.

Many are called but few are chosen Matt 22:14.

No, those who are chosen are those who don’t refuse to believe! Those called to the wedding banquet and come dressed properly are accepted/chosen.

Doug





 

Theo1689

Well-known member
No, those who are chosen are those who don’t refuse to believe! Those called to the wedding banquet and come dressed properly are accepted/chosen.

Doug

It's sad that you don't realize how ludicrous (not to mention unBiblical) your position is.

Saying that God chooses those "who don't refuse to believe" is not only unBiblical, but it's like saying the baseball coach "chooses" those players who "don't refuse to show up on opening day". The players choose the team, and then the coach "chooses" those who already chose to put themselves on the team.

Completely ridiculous.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
No, those who are chosen are those who don’t refuse to believe! Those called to the wedding banquet and come dressed properly are accepted/chosen.

Doug
I don’t know how you can come to such a conclusion Doug.

Your teaching sinners elect themselves. You may try and deny it but you have God waiting to see who will respond to the gospel. And not only that, but they can also decide at a later time to un-elect themselves.

It’s like a big playground, and the invitation is posted “come play if you like” so many come and play, the person in charge is just a watchman.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
I don’t know how you can come to such a conclusion Doug.

Your teaching sinners elect themselves. You may try and deny it but you have God waiting to see who will respond to the gospel. And not only that, but they can also decide at a later time to un-elect themselves.

It’s like a big playground, and the invitation is posted “come play if you like” so many come and play, the person in charge is just a watchman.
God sets the conditions; whoever actively believes will be saved. Thus, God has chosen that those who fulfill this condition are saved! Just as in the wedding feast parable, there are two conditions, coming to the wedding feast, and being properly dressed for the event. The invitation was an act of grace, the response is conditional. God is more than a watchman, acceptance is at his discretion alone!

Doug
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
God sets the conditions; whoever actively believes will be saved. Thus, God has chosen that those who fulfill this condition are saved!

Yes, and God FULFILLS the condition, by giving His elect people faith (Eph. 2:8, Phil. 1:29, Rom. 12:3, 2 Pet. 1:1, 1 Cor. 4:7, etc.)

Just as in the wedding feast parable, there are two conditions, coming to the wedding feast, and being properly dressed for the event. The invitation was an act of grace, the response is conditional.

Except, if you remember, those who actually ended up coming were COMPELLED to come (Luke 14:23).

It is also my understanding that the custom back in the day was for the host of the wedding feast to provide garments for the guests.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
Yes, and God FULFILLS the condition, by giving His elect people faith (Eph. 2:8, Phil. 1:29, Rom. 12:3, 2 Pet. 1:1, 1 Cor. 4:7, etc.)
Eph 2:8 Faith is not the object of "and this not of yourselves"; the salvation that is " by grace...through faith" is that "which is not of yourselves" and "not by works lest any man should boast". Grace and faith are the means of God's choosing to bring about his salvation. Salvation is the subject in question! Salvation is graciously given through faith.

Phil1:29 Granted means to give favor freely. The question then is what is given. Neither of the things " given", however are objective things, but rather refer to circumstantial settings to do what they are doing at the time, namely, believing and suffering. Paul is not saying that faith and suffering are given, but that the believing and suffering that they are actively doing is an gracious favor being given from God!

Romans 12:3 "the πιστις, faith, here used, means the Christian religion; and the measure, the degree of knowledge and experience which each had received in it, and the power this gave him of being useful in the Church of God. See Romans 12:6." (Clarke)
Chapter 12 is the commencement of the practical or application side of Paul's message to the Romans. Paul begins to talk about what we do with our gifts of ministration of our faith, and how we do it. The measure of faith given is directly related with the measure or scope of giftedness that he chooses for each of us to exercise within the body. Each of us has a role or calling, and each are given the abilities to carry this out. Our faith or belief in these gifts and callings to do these things is varied and variable according to his purposes for us at any given time. This is not the concrete faith of believing in Christ for salvation, but of living the life of faith in an ever dynamic way according to a specific and individually unique purpose and plan of God. I think of Esther and Mordicai and the latter's edict to Esther that maybe "it was for such a time as this" that God has placed you as Queen. The measure of faith needed to go in before Xerxes unannounced is something that is unique, and God gives us the strength, more or less in measure, to trust him in any circumstance to which he has called us.

2 Pet 1:1 "A faith as precious as ours" is referencing the truths that have been taught to us, passed down to all of us.

By this word the author gives it to be understood, that the faith of those to whom he writes, has the same worth as that of those whom he designates by ἡμῖν; both have received one and the same faith (as to its objective contents) (Brückner, Besser, Wiesinger) (Meyer)


Like precious faith with us.—Not that all had an equal amount of faith, which would scarcely be possible; nor that their faith gave all an equal right to salvation, which the Greek could scarcely mean; but that all believed the same precious mysteries. (Comp. 1Peter 1:7.) (Ellicott)

1 Cor 4:7 I think that to take the viewpoint you have is to violate the admonition in verse 6, namely, “Do not go beyond what is written.”. Given the context, this has nothing to do with faith. We have to ask to what is Paul referring in context. These Corinthians were boastful: about whom they were followers of, ie, Paul, Apollos, Cephas or Christ, and about which of these were better than the others. They thought that they were better than those who followed someone different, and that made them better. Some commentators suggest that the followers of Apollos thought that his superior teaching made his followers more advanced that even Paul, whose preaching and teaching had been very elementary and limited in scope, being focused only on "Jesus Christ and him crucified" (1 Cor 2:2). Paul's simple message is what it is always: all that they have gained through the gospel is by God graciously giving it to them. The question of faith, of trusting what they have heard, is a) not strictly in focus here, and b) trust is only something I can give to someone/something else, it is not given to me by God to give back to God at least not in the way you mean.


Except, if you remember, those who actually ended up coming were COMPELLED to come (Luke 14:23).

Matthew uses καλέω throughout his account, and Luke also uses it in 14:24, and Mounce translates it as invite in both cases. Luke does use the word ἀναγκάζω in 14:23, however, Mounce translates it as " urge" rather than "compel" as if to place the force of the word upon the act of the invitation itself, rather than on the necessity of the response to it, because, as Matthew puts it, "My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet." (22:4b)

It is also my understanding that the custom back in the day was for the host of the wedding feast to provide garments for the guests.
According to Clarke, the garments had to be requested from the host, the host did not just give it to them.


Doug
 
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