A concern.

Mr Laurier

Well-known member
When political ideology decides science... we all suffer.
Religious fundamentalism has gained political power, and has been trying for years to dictate science.
What happens if they succeed ?
 

vibise

Well-known member
The biggest problem we face is climate change, and the RW does not accept that this is a problem. This attitude is highly destructive and unfortunately they have an outsized say in our country's policies on this issues.

The other issues they oppose are significant but not as huge. I don't need to list them.
 

Torin

Well-known member
@Mr Laurier

Thanks for the video. It was nice to see you, and I learned a bit.

For whatever my opinion is worth, I don't see YEC as an existential threat the way you apparently do. It's the last gasp of the Middle Ages. It will die out on its own.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
@Mr Laurier

Thanks for the video. It was nice to see you, and I learned a bit.

For whatever my opinion is worth, I don't see YEC as an existential threat the way you apparently do. It's the last gasp of the Middle Ages. It will die out on its own.
I agree (with all of this). I don't think religious fundamentalism is as great of a threat as the OP's video portrays it.

If educational standards were somehow to slip even further in this country, I might eventually change my mind. Until then, though, Christian fundamentalists have marginalized themselves, and this trend will continue even if they gain more political power. Shining a bright light on the kind of stuff they believe is what keeps them a minority.
 

HouOz

Well-known member
The biggest problem we face is climate change, and the RW does not accept that this is a problem. This attitude is highly destructive and unfortunately they have an outsized say in our country's policies on this issues.

The other issues they oppose are significant but not as huge. I don't need to list them.
Agree that climate change is a huge issue going forward but so is the way we utilize our natural resources.
Renewables are the way forward and tie in with climate change in important ways.
I work on a landfill and if people could see the waste we generate, most would be shocked.
And it's the things we waste - non renewables like plastics, glass and metals are tossed into the trash in alarming quantities.
We must recycle more aggressively as it not only preserves resources for future generations but is also cost effective.
We must be better stewards of our natural resources.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
Agree that climate change is a huge issue going forward but so is the way we utilize our natural resources.
Renewables are the way forward and tie in with climate change in important ways.
I work on a landfill and if people could see the waste we generate, most would be shocked.
And it's the things we waste - non renewables like plastics, glass and metals are tossed into the trash in alarming quantities.
We must recycle more aggressively as it not only preserves resources for future generations but is also cost effective.
We must be better stewards of our natural resources.
To be frank, I'm not entirely sure where you place yourself on the conservative/libertarian spectrum, but I generally consider you somewhere to the (not too far) right of me.

Post like yours are what give me confidence that the left and the right can forge a common ground. It's already there, but we spend most of our time focusing on the differences instead, and that needs to change.
 

HouOz

Well-known member
To be frank, I'm not entirely sure where you place yourself on the conservative/libertarian spectrum, but I generally consider you somewhere to the (not too far) right of me.

Post like yours are what give me confidence that the left and the right can forge a common ground. It's already there, but we spend most of our time focusing on the differences instead, and that needs to change.
I consider myself to be just a hair to the right of center.
I seriously attempt to see both sides of arguments - always in the interests of truth and the betterment of man.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
When political ideology decides science... we all suffer.
Religious fundamentalism has gained political power, and has been trying for years to dictate science.
What happens if they succeed ?
What would happen is a Catholic priest would come up with the concept of the big bang theory.
 

vibise

Well-known member
@Mr Laurier

Thanks for the video. It was nice to see you, and I learned a bit.

For whatever my opinion is worth, I don't see YEC as an existential threat the way you apparently do. It's the last gasp of the Middle Ages. It will die out on its own.
The Middle Ages was quite a long time ago. And the fundamentalism of that time has not gone away but has been repeatedly revitalized in different forms, most notably for this discussion, as the distinctly American form of Evangelical fundamentalism which had suddenly decided in the last few decades to focus on abortion and to get politically involved through support of Trump.

These people could easily have won the last election if 43K votes in a few states had gone the other way. That outcome would have quashed any real progress on climate change, would have relegated women to chattel status, banned accurate sex-ed and healthcare coverage of contraception and maybe even childbirth. As well as threatening the teaching of real science in schools, SSM and acceptance of transgenders, acceptance of non-Christians, voting rights, restrictions on the proliferation of guns, immigration and protections of Dreamers, etc.

The Trump aligned religious right is dangerous for America and for democracy.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
The Middle Ages was quite a long time ago. And the fundamentalism of that time has not gone away but has been repeatedly revitalized in different forms, most notably for this discussion, as the distinctly American form of Evangelical fundamentalism which had suddenly decided in the last few decades to focus on abortion and to get politically involved through support of Trump.

These people could easily have won the last election if 43K votes in a few states had gone the other way. That outcome would have quashed any real progress on climate change, would have relegated women to chattel status, banned accurate sex-ed and healthcare coverage of contraception and maybe even childbirth. As well as threatening the teaching of real science in schools, SSM and acceptance of transgenders, acceptance of non-Christians, voting rights, restrictions on the proliferation of guns, immigration and protections of Dreamers, etc.

The Trump aligned religious right is dangerous for America and for democracy.
The religious right has been dangerous for America for decades but, as you say, it has picked up steam in the last few years under Trump. They've shown that they have no respect for the Constitution or laws if they don't like them and that they are eager to stop science and take away the rights of women as well as numerous minority groups.

Yes, the Trump-aligned religious right is hugely dangerous for America and for democracy and anybody who cares about America, her legacy and its democracy will do all they can to stop Trump ever regaining any kind of power and stop the religious right from their continued attacks on her.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
The biggest problem we face is climate change, and the RW does not accept that this is a problem. This attitude is highly destructive and unfortunately they have an outsized say in our country's policies on this issues.

The other issues they oppose are significant but not as huge. I don't need to list them.
I see you offer not a lick of science data or evidence. ClimateGate leaks were proof they admitted the warming was insignificant without Mikes Nature Trick and manipulating data.

The largest factor for the 1.9 degrees warming in the past 140 years is water vapor. Half of that warming has disappeared. Building lakes and irrigation has helped increase water vapor. The Goremons are doomsayers.
 

vibise

Well-known member
I see you offer not a lick of science data or evidence. ClimateGate leaks were proof they admitted the warming was insignificant without Mikes Nature Trick and manipulating data.

The largest factor for the 1.9 degrees warming in the past 140 years is water vapor. Half of that warming has disappeared. Building lakes and irrigation has helped increase water vapor. The Goremons are doomsayers.
Those "climategate" leaks were investigated at least 6 times, finding no evidence of fraud.

Our intel agencies, however, list climate change as our top threat going forward.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Agree that climate change is a huge issue going forward but so is the way we utilize our natural resources.
Renewables are the way forward and tie in with climate change in important ways.
I work on a landfill and if people could see the waste we generate, most would be shocked.
And it's the things we waste - non renewables like plastics, glass and metals are tossed into the trash in alarming quantities.
We must recycle more aggressively as it not only preserves resources for future generations but is also cost effective.
We must be better stewards of our natural resources.
Work on renewables.

On a huge fan, the 35 ton 80' long blades are FRP. Glass and plastic. They will go to the dump. They can't be recycled. The 50 ton nacelle is also FRP. They don't want car tires at the dump. These are worse. The bearings and gears good for 20 years going on 10. Almost 500,000 dollars to decommission a tower.
 

DeSanto

Well-known member
When political ideology decides science... we all suffer.
Religious fundamentalism has gained political power, and has been trying for years to dictate science.
What happens if they succeed ?
Are you aware of the term “biopolitics”... what it means and where it comes from?
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
The Middle Ages was quite a long time ago. And the fundamentalism of that time has not gone away but has been repeatedly revitalized in different forms, most notably for this discussion, as the distinctly American form of Evangelical fundamentalism which had suddenly decided in the last few decades to focus on abortion and to get politically involved through support of Trump.

These people could easily have won the last election if 43K votes in a few states had gone the other way. That outcome would have quashed any real progress on climate change, would have relegated women to chattel status, banned accurate sex-ed and healthcare coverage of contraception and maybe even childbirth. As well as threatening the teaching of real science in schools, SSM and acceptance of transgenders, acceptance of non-Christians, voting rights, restrictions on the proliferation of guns, immigration and protections of Dreamers, etc.

The Trump aligned religious right is dangerous for America and for democracy.
My How you love the "Sean hannity style" laundry list of the evils of the other side lol
 

HouOz

Well-known member
Work on renewables.

On a huge fan, the 35 ton 80' long blades are FRP. Glass and plastic. They will go to the dump. They can't be recycled. The 50 ton nacelle is also FRP. They don't want car tires at the dump. These are worse. The bearings and gears good for 20 years going on 10. Almost 500,000 dollars to decommission a tower.
Yes, an unfortunate consequence. Still, they are safely buried in the ground. Perhaps someday they will figure out how to recycle them.
In the meantime, they provide clean, cheap power and each unit pays for itself in 5-8 months.
Cons are noise and visual pollution and some minor adverse environmental impact. (Visual and wildlife hazard.)
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Yes, an unfortunate consequence. Still, they are safely buried in the ground. Perhaps someday they will figure out how to recycle them.
In the meantime, they provide clean, cheap power and each unit pays for itself in 5-8 months.
Cons are noise and visual pollution and some minor adverse environmental impact. (Visual and wildlife hazard.)
The fans in California are now shut down twice a year during bird migration.

The front end pollution means polyesters are generally cured by a conventional peroxide curing system consisting of methyl ethyl ketone peroxide, styrene or methacrylate, .......MEK to use as a catalyst to mold the blades is also a great solvent for adhesives. It is another intense pollutant. I think they can go to water based coatings for the towers to reduce release of VOC's from petrol based paints.
 
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