A crosswalk article

SteveB

Well-known member

Romans 10:1-3 “Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they did not submit to the righteousness of God.”

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS), also known as Mormons, is something of a peculiarity in the evangelical world: bikes, enthusiastic bravado, traveling in pairs, wearing white button-up shirts and black ties.

Mormons exude a bright-eyed enthusiasm for the “Gospel of Jesus Christ” that they have a “burning in the bosom” to share. It could almost be inspiring for Christians who may feel they are doing a lot less to reach the world for Christ. Almost...
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member

Romans 10:1-3 “Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they did not submit to the righteousness of God.”

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS), also known as Mormons, is something of a peculiarity in the evangelical world: bikes, enthusiastic bravado, traveling in pairs, wearing white button-up shirts and black ties.

Mormons exude a bright-eyed enthusiasm for the “Gospel of Jesus Christ” that they have a “burning in the bosom” to share. It could almost be inspiring for Christians who may feel they are doing a lot less to reach the world for Christ. Almost...
Morning, Steve.

That is a highly prejudiced article--with a lot of false chatter or dichotomy.

Personally--looking from the lens of faith alone 16th century roots theology--there may be a lot of differences, but that is a position of non--Biblical theology anyway, in many ways.

So--seeing that 1st Century Christianity was a radical departure from the existing theology of the traditional Jews of that day--perhaps from the perspective they had been in apostasy for some time--how do you feel that differs from the LDS theology, in some ways--not fitting in with today's theology?
 

Bonnie

Well-known member

Romans 10:1-3 “Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they did not submit to the righteousness of God.”

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS), also known as Mormons, is something of a peculiarity in the evangelical world: bikes, enthusiastic bravado, traveling in pairs, wearing white button-up shirts and black ties.

Mormons exude a bright-eyed enthusiasm for the “Gospel of Jesus Christ” that they have a “burning in the bosom” to share. It could almost be inspiring for Christians who may feel they are doing a lot less to reach the world for Christ. Almost...
Except Mormon "missionaries" are doing this:

Matthew 23:15 15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

That is what those bright-eyed, clean cut Mormon "missionaries" are doing, however unwittingly. By making converts, they lead them to join a false church that teaches a false gospel and believes in a false Jesus Christ, the actual brother of the devil in the supposed, pre-mortal existence.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Except Mormon "missionaries" are doing this:

Matthew 23:15 15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
Yeah--but anyone making those associations--will suffer this fate:

Luke 10:15---King James Version
15 And thou.....shalt be thrust down to hell.

(that's right, Bonnie--anyone can create a straw man for public disembowelment)
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
Yeah--but anyone making those associations--will suffer this fate:

Luke 10:15---King James Version
15 And thou.....shalt be thrust down to hell.

(that's right, Bonnie--anyone can create a straw man for public disembowelment)
What straw man? That IS what Mormon missionaries do, isn't it? Try to make as many proselytes as possible and get them baptized into your church, so your church can start bringing in all of that tithing money--right? The missionaries may sincerely think they are doing the right thing, but sincerity isn't proof what one believes is the truth--is it?

I wonder how many missionaries tell prospective converts the more...unique doctrines of your church, like the temple works and endowments and what they are supposed to do....do you know, dberrie? Do your missionaries now give prospective converts that information, so they can be more informed about what your church fully believes, before making their decisions to join? Do they tell them about how Smith practiced polygamy and married very young teen-aged girls, and other men's wives, manipulating them into marrying them? Do they tell them how he preached the WoW, while not following it himself? Do they tell them they can become Gods just like Elohim, in the highest part of the CK, after death, and become creators of worlds and populate them with their own spirit children? Do they tell them they must do certain things and make certain covenants in those temples, in order to be WORTHY of this "exaltation" to "godhood" after death?

Do your missionaries tell prospective coverts all of this? Before getting them baptized?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Morning, Steve.

That is a highly prejudiced article--with a lot of false chatter or dichotomy.

Personally--looking from the lens of faith alone 16th century roots theology--there may be a lot of differences, but that is a position of non--Biblical theology anyway, in many ways.

So--seeing that 1st Century Christianity was a radical departure from the existing theology of the traditional Jews of that day--perhaps from the perspective they had been in apostasy for some time--how do you feel that differs from the LDS theology, in some ways--not fitting in with today's theology?
Take it up with the writers.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I wonder how many missionaries tell prospective converts the more...unique doctrines of your church, like the temple works and endowments and what they are supposed to do....do you know, dberrie?

They don't.
I saw a YT video once where proselytes were asking the missionaries if they believed and taught "plural gods". They denied it up and down. It was only after the proselytes gave them quote after quote after quote of LDS sources teaching plural gods, that the mishies came clean and admitted it.

What's worse that Mormons lying to people?
Mormons having to admit to lying to people.

If their doctrines are true, why do the feel the need to have to lie to hide their beliefs?

It's because they want to appear "Christian" to people, until they've got you baptized.
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
They don't.
I saw a YT video once where proselytes were asking the missionaries if they believed and taught "plural gods". They denied it up and down. It was only after the proselytes gave them quote after quote after quote of LDS sources teaching plural gods, that the mishies came clean and admitted it.

What's worse than Mormons lying to people?
Mormons having to admit to lying to people.

If their doctrines are true, why do the feel the need to have to lie to hide their beliefs?

It's because they want to appear "Christian" to people, until they've got you baptized.
"YT" video? Is this on youtube?

Maybe they are ashamed of these more...bizarre beliefs. But if they are truly Mormon, then why don't they just own their church's own teachings on this?

Since when would God want us--or need us--to lie for Him? These missionaries should ask themselves WHY they felt the need to deny what their church actually teaches...and ask themselves WHO the father of lies is....(say another instance of "father" being used metaphorically!)
 

Bonnie

Well-known member

Romans 10:1-3 “Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they did not submit to the righteousness of God.”

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS), also known as Mormons, is something of a peculiarity in the evangelical world: bikes, enthusiastic bravado, traveling in pairs, wearing white button-up shirts and black ties.

Mormons exude a bright-eyed enthusiasm for the “Gospel of Jesus Christ” that they have a “burning in the bosom” to share. It could almost be inspiring for Christians who may feel they are doing a lot less to reach the world for Christ. Almost...
Interesting. I note especially this part:

You know that salvation is a free gift of God and that it cannot be earned. In fact, the Bible, via Ephesians 2:8-9 is exceedingly clear on this one… right? Your Bible says that. Mormons doesn’t.

I don’t mean the Book of Mormon. Their King James Version Bible, as translated by Joseph Smith, doesn’t say that at all. But it’s the only version they accept. According to 2 Nephi 25:23, “…believe in Christ, and be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”Did you catch that? “After all we can do…”

In brief, Mormons are not assured of salvation through the cross (which they do not recognize as a necessary work) and do not believe it is free. They will say they believe salvation is through grace, but what they mean is this: You will find out if you have earned that gracious salvation after you die and face judgement. This will be based on an assessment of your works and if your works are deemed to be worthy enough, you then receive grace to be granted salvation.

Salvation, for Mormons is not free. It is earned. Same words, very different meaning.

"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, by Spencer W. Kimball, former President of the LDS Church, p. 206).

And yet, a certain Mormon on here once told me on another forum that we are ONLY saved by God's grace-not by faith and not by works--just grace. Yet, this person keeps saying we need to keep the commandments to receive this grace. So I asked him, "Is keeping the commandments a WORK?" And this person said "Yes, it is a WORK WE DO ." I archived that conversation, from the last boards.

Does anyone besides me see the contradiction in these statements? :rolleyes:

Also, no. 6 isn't entirely accurate. While Mormons do downplay the cross, I have never seen anyone on here or read of any Mormon saying that Jesus' death on the cross was unnecessary, since he shed his sweat and blood in the Garden of Gethsemane. However, they do believe that most of the atonement took place in the Garden, and not the cross, which is totally unbiblical and untrue. Our sins were nailed to the CROSS and taken away there--not buried under a bush watered by Jesus' sweat and blood in the Garden of Gethsemane.
 
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SteveB

Well-known member
As I stated--it is a highly prejudiced article. I'm referring to the writer, and the material.

The writers didn't post it here--you did?

My question for you--what was your point in posting it here?

Yes. I did post it here.
And to someone who believes in LDS doctrines I'd agree.... it's an extremely prejudicial article. Truth always is prejudiced against lies. It's why lies run like hell to get ahead of the truth, so that when truth comes along, it'll seem like a lie to the real lie, which has masqueraded as truth.

My point-- to provide a resource for people who talk to mormons about their Jesus.

I encourage you to read this article.

Paul after all warns us about those who proclaim another gospel, even if preached by angels.... which is pretty much what Joe Smith told us what happened.


So.... here's my question to you--- are you an LDS member?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Yes. I did post it here.
And to someone who believes in LDS doctrines I'd agree.... it's an extremely prejudicial article. Truth always is prejudiced against lies. It's why lies run like hell to get ahead of the truth, so that when truth comes along, it'll seem like a lie to the real lie, which has masqueraded as truth.

My point-- to provide a resource for people who talk to mormons about their Jesus.

Then why not use the Biblical text, instead of a prejudiced article?

And that way--the truth about Jesus can be found:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I encourage you to read this article.
I read the article. That's why I stated it was full of false chatter.


Paul after all warns us about those who proclaim another gospel, even if preached by angels.... which is pretty much what Joe Smith told us what happened.

Are you referring to this Paul?

Romans 6:16---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

So.... here's my question to you--- are you an LDS member?
I am.

What denomination do you claim?
 

Aaron32

Active member
Except Mormon "missionaries" are doing this:



That is what those bright-eyed, clean cut Mormon "missionaries" are doing, however unwittingly. By making converts, they lead them to join a false church that teaches a false gospel and believes in a false Jesus Christ, the actual brother of the devil in the supposed, pre-mortal existence.
This is purely speculation on your part.
What measure ye mete....
 

SteveB

Well-known member
So, you purport to spread a false narrative and then wash your hands of it? I guess that illustrates how weak the article's claims really are.
Nope.
I think if you have a problem with it--- you should take it up with the people who actually can do something about it.
Why would you want to argue with someone who didn't write it, when you clearly have a problem with the content of the article itself?
Where I come from, it's called--- taking responsibility for your ideas.
 

Aaron32

Active member
Nope.
I think if you have a problem with it--- you should take it up with the people who actually can do something about it.
I definitely will. But right now, I'm talking to you.
Why would you want to argue with someone who didn't write it, when you clearly have a problem with the content of the article itself?
Because of the very reason you came HERE to post it - per the link you posted on the purpose of these forums:
1.To promote conversation among people with different viewpoints.
You want to drop a carpetbomb of talking points, but you don't want to defend them?
2. Help train Christians on how to deal with false religious systems.
That would require you to try and defend the article you posted.
3. They are to help Christians become better equipped to defend the Christian faith against non-theological systems.
You have defended anything. All you've done is dropped a strawman argument, and then want to pretend you had nothing to do with it.
Where I come from, it's called--- taking responsibility for your ideas.
I agree. By sharing content, you're sharing an idea. Maybe you should take responsibility for it.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I definitely will. But right now, I'm talking to you.

Because of the very reason you came HERE to post it - per the link you posted on the purpose of these forums:
1.To promote conversation among people with different viewpoints.
You want to drop a carpetbomb of talking points, but you don't want to defend them?

I think the article is great for promoting conversation.
But apparently you are afraid to discuss the content of the article.

3. They are to help Christians become better equipped to defend the Christian faith against non-theological systems.

Again, I think the article does a great job doing that.

You have defended anything. All you've done is dropped a strawman argument, and then want to pretend you had nothing to do with it.

If you think it's a "straw-man", then it is up to YOU to demonstrate it.
Not just drop a bomb that it's a "straw-man", and then run away from discussion.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I definitely will. But right now, I'm talking to you.
Except that you're not talking with me. You're talking AT me.
So, if you want to talk to me, don't do AT me.
I'm not bothered that you don't like the article.
Jesus said some rather offensive things, and people stopped following him as a result of things he said. So much so that he asked the 12 if they were going to leave too. To which, Pete responds--- to whom else shall we go? You alone have the words of eternal life.
So, since the LDS is not the biblically sanctioned body of Christ, I'm not concerned that you find the article a problem.

Because of the very reason you came HERE to post it - per the link you posted on the purpose of these forums:
1.To promote conversation among people with different viewpoints.
You want to drop a carpetbomb of talking points, but you don't want to defend them?
I think you should learn to understand what the article is actually saying before you try taking it up with me.

2. Help train Christians on how to deal with false religious systems.
That would require you to try and defend the article you posted.
No. It requires you to take responsibility for your ideas.

3. They are to help Christians become better equipped to defend the Christian faith against non-theological systems.
You have defended anything. All you've done is dropped a strawman argument, and then want to pretend you had nothing to do with it.
Yeah, this is a perfect example of talking AT me, instead of with me.
Telling me that something is a strawman is telling me that you're afraid to think, and need anything you disagree with to be wrong, regardless.
So..... if all you want to do is win--- I'll make it easy for you--- you've won.
Ciao.
I agree. By sharing content, you're sharing an idea. Maybe you should take responsibility for it.
I already have.
You however have claimed that it's a strawman, so to you, it cannot possibly be right, regardless.
So..... because you've used this term, you don't actually care about defending your ideas. You only care about winning.
 
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