A crosswalk article

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Nope.
I think if you have a problem with it--- you should take it up with the people who actually can do something about it.
Why would you want to argue with someone who didn't write it, when you clearly have a problem with the content of the article itself?
Where I come from, it's called--- taking responsibility for your ideas.

So--whose idea was it to post that article here?

Steve--I don't believe articles should be sugary--but they should at least contain the truth, for the main. Some mistakes are always inevitable--but that article isn't even representative of the truth.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
So--whose idea was it to post that article here?

Steve--I don't believe articles should be sugary--but they should at least contain the truth, for the main. Some mistakes are always inevitable--but that article isn't even representative of the truth.
And what is your idea of the truth?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
So--whose idea was it to post that article here?

Steve--I don't believe articles should be sugary--but they should at least contain the truth, for the main. Some mistakes are always inevitable--but that article isn't even representative of the truth.

Yeah, we know.
The article is about Mormonism, and Mormonism isn't the truth.

But if you think the article doesn't accurately describe Mormonism, why don't you try to demonstrate it?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Yeah, we know.
The article is about Mormonism, and Mormonism isn't the truth.

But if you think the article doesn't accurately describe Mormonism, why don't you try to demonstrate it?
I was just thinking about that too.
Seems to me if they have a problem with the article, post the parts of the article that they're having a problem with, and we can deal with each of those parts.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Well, it's pretty obvious these guys just want to rant, and have no basis for their complaint, so let's see how this works.

1. The LDS Church, Mormonism is a polytheistic religion.​

A famous teaching within the LDS Church is this:“As man is, God once was. As God now is, man will one day be.” It could almost sound reasonable to someone who agrees that God once became a man (Jesus Christ), and that one day we will be “like Him for we shall see Him as He is” (1 John 3:2). Yay, God! But… nope.​
What the LDS Church really means when they say it is this: God was once a man. Just a man. Not Jesus, God incarnate. Just an actual run-of-the-mill dude, born on a planet somewhere who grew up and ascended to His place in the heavens over many millennia of existence and good works.​
God, for Mormons, is a created being. “As man is, God once was…” Ouch. We, like God the Father, all have the opportunity to ascend just like He did. We can get to be God the Father too, on a planet somewhere else.​
“As God now is, man will one day be…”. So, while a Mormon will affirm there is, indeed, “One God”, they do not mean it like you do – they mean there is one God of planet earth. Elsewhere? There are gods all over the place! All someday to be worthy of worship and adoration.​

What.... exactly, is untrue about this statement?
I.e., someone who is Mormon.
Does the Mormon church not believe that as man is, God once was?
Does the Mormon church not believe that as God now is, man can become?
Because if this is the case, then why be ashamed of it? Why not own it. Be proud Mormons.

the problem I have with it is that it sounds like what the serpent told Eve in the Garden.

You can become like God.

And considering we read in Isaiah 14, he wanted to be the Most High, I have a problem with that.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Ok. Part 2

2. Jesus has a brother, He’s not God, and God has a wife.​

Remember God the Father? The random guy who was born on a planet somewhere in space, the final frontier, who earned His way to the Celestial Kingdom and attained godhood status? He’s married. Your God isn’t. But theirs is.​
“Heavenly Father,” as He is referred to in the LDS Church has a counterpart, “Heavenly Mother.” Mormons won’t typically lead with this, as most Christians would take a quick step back, but she’s there. Eternally making babies – of which you are one. This is also a foundational argument for polygamy. In order to populate your planet, you’ll need more than one wife.​
From that eternal sexual union was born Jesus (not immaculately conceived), Joseph Smith (the true prophet of God), you, me, and Lucifer – our brother. Wait...what? According to the LDS Church, our brother, also referred to as Satan, has a bone to pick and is sowing his oats here on earth at our unfortunate expense. Talk about a prodigal…!​
To Mormons, Jesus is one of many sons of God, and is just a man, not God Himself. No Godhead/Trinity/Three-in-One. Forget the 300 fulfilled prophecies of Jesus Christ in the Bible.​
The Mormons have stripped Him of His deity.​

So.... again...... does the Jesus of Mormonism have a brother?
Does the God of Mormonism have a wife?
every Mormon who ever engaged me has always said he did. Lucifer was his spirit brother.
So, again I have to wonder.... if this is true, then what's wrong with stating such?
Why not be a proud Mormon, and own this?

Here's the problem I have with it..... It may well be the Mormon Jesus has a brother. the Jesus of the bible--- he does not.
YHVH, as described in the bible does not have a wife.

So...... what.... exactly is wrong about this part of the article?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Part 3

3. We’ll talk about grace when you get to heaven – if you get there.​

You know that salvation is a free gift of God and that it cannot be earned. In fact, the Bible, via Ephesians 2:8-9 is exceedingly clear on this one… right? Your Bible says that. Mormons doesn’t.​
I don’t mean the Book of Mormon. Their King James Version Bible, as translated by Joseph Smith, doesn’t say that at all. But it’s the only version they accept. According to 2 Nephi 25:23, “…believe in Christ, and be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”Did you catch that? “After all we can do…”​
In brief, Mormons are not assured of salvation through the cross (which they do not recognize as a necessary work) and do not believe it is free. They will say they believe salvation is through grace, but what they mean is this: You will find out if you have earned that gracious salvation after you die and face judgement. This will be based on an assessment of your works and if your works are deemed to be worthy enough, you then receive grace to be granted salvation.​
Salvation, for Mormons is not free. It is earned. Same words, very different meaning.​
"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, by Spencer W. Kimball, former President of the LDS Church, p. 206).​

So.... is salvation a free gift in Mormonism, or not? Because the bible says that it is.

Paul even deals with this at great length in his letters.

Romans 4, and 5, then this one in Romans 11

Rom 11:6 NKJV - And if by grace, then [it is] no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if [it is] of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.​

So..... if what Mormonism actually does claim that you're not going to get to heaven, unless you perform some kind of works--- telling others, having your marriage sealed in the temple, wearing some special garments, etc.... then be proud Mormons, and own it. Don't try to pussy-foot around it. Just own it.

Here's the problem I have with this....
The bible says that salvation is a gift.
So, the LDS, and the bible cannot both be right. They can both be wrong, but not both right.

Rom 11:6 NKJV - And if by grace, then [it is] no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if [it is] of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Part 4

4. The Word of the Prophet trumps the Word of God.​

Joseph Smith was the original prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Many think he was crazy, but he was more… crazy like a fox. Intelligent. Thoughtful. Well-read. Grasping for greatness.​
“There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God.” (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188).​
Smith set himself up as a prophet and had many “prophecies” that captured the hearts and minds of his followers. The first thing Joseph Smith did was to call into question the inerrancy of the Bible, pointing to various translation “errors” and “conflicts.” From there, he set himself up as the exclusive source of all truth via a prophetic anointing.​
All Mormons, prophets of the LDS Church, to this day, are believed to carry that same “anointing.” What they say is what God is saying, regardless of any Scriptural conflicts.​

So.... again..... Does the LDS/Mormon church actually believe this? Does the word of the prophet trump the word of YHVH?
If so--- be proud Mormons. Own it. Don't pussy-foot around. Don't beat around the bush.... OWN IT!

Because the bible is really clear on this....
No prophet's word EVER trumps YHVH's word.

Deuteronomy 13, and 18, as well as Jeremiah, the Psalms..... they all deal with this issue.

It's ok if that's what the Mormon church teaches. Be proud Mormons and own it. but don't think for a single heartbeat that the mormon church is THE true Church of God. Because it's not. It's just another cult, who are filled with religious people who refuse to follow Jesus. They may indeed follow the Book of Mormon, PotC, and D&C. But those are not "extra" revelation by YHVH.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Except that you're not talking with me. You're talking AT me.
So, if you want to talk to me, don't do AT me.
Fair enough.

I'm not bothered that you don't like the article.
Jesus said some rather offensive things, and people stopped following him as a result of things he said.
Jesus didn’t blatantly misrepresent those that opposed him. Ask them questions, and then responded, usually in a way to help them see their own hypocrisy.

So, since the LDS is not the biblically sanctioned body of Christ, I'm not concerned that you find the article a problem.
It’s not the Bible teachings that I’m upset about. It’s the blatant misrepresentation of my beliefs. Was Paul fond of Judaizers?

I think you should learn to understand what the article is actually saying before you try taking it up with me.
I know what the article is saying. Mormonism is wrong because of:
1. (supposed) Polytheism
2. (supposed) The wrong Jesus (Satan’s brother)
3. (supposed) Works based salvation
4. The prophet Trump’s scripture (total lie)
5. Believing the Bible is not infallible (plausible)
6. Believing Jesus didn’t need to die on the cross (total lie)
7. You have to be in the temple to be with God (total lie)
I can understand a general misunderstanding of point 1-3 and 5. But three point are WAY out of bounds and blatant dishonesty.

Telling me that something is a strawman is telling me that you're afraid to think, and need anything you disagree with to be wrong, regardless.
Generally it’s the person that MAKES the claim that needs to substantiate it.
If someone falsely accuses you of murder on weak evidence, do you consider how you are the murderer or are you just afraid to think? See the problem?

So..... if all you want to do is win--- I'll make it easy for you--- you've won.
Ciao.
No, I’m not here to win a debate, but to recognize truth.

I already have.


You however have claimed that it's a strawman, so to you, it cannot possibly be right, regardless.
So..... because you've used this term, you don't actually care about defending your ideas. You only care about winning.
Sound you’re asking me to defend my claim that your claim is a strawman?

First, the author doesn’t actually use our text to make her point. She takes the most extreme statement she can find.

1. Polytheism -

Points made:
* “As man is, God once was. As God now is, man will one day be.” - Came from Lorenzo Snow, who traced its authority from the King Follett Discourse, which isn’t in our Standard Works.
* “God is created” - Simply untrue. God has always existed (See D&C 93) this is Mormon cultural belief, but not actual doctrine.
* “Man will become God and have his own planet” - Also cultural speculation, not doctrine.
2. Jesus is Satan’s brother - Inasmuch as we all have spirits, and Satan has a spirit we’re spirit brothers. But the scriptures don’t actually say that Jesus was just a regular guy, he was distinguished from others that were “like unto God” (Abr. 3:24) and “beloved/Chosen from the beginning” (Moses 4:2)
3. Works based Salvation - It by grace through faith we are saved. Works are evidence of our faith. (See 2 Ne 31 that explains Jesus obedience) If you believe OSAS, and salvation is give lip service to Jesus and live your merry life (which seems to be the attitude of the author) then that can be discussed in the Works vs Grace forum.
4. The prophet’s words trump scripture - blantant lie. ““It makes no difference what is written or what anyone has said, if what has been said is in conflict with what the Lord has revealed, we can set it aside. My words, and the teachings of any other member of the Church, high or low, if they do not square with the revelations, we need not accept them. Let us have this matter clear. We have accepted the four standard works as the measuring yardsticks, or balances, by which we measure every man’s doctrine.” - Joseph Fielding Smith
5. The Book of Mormon is considered preeminent to the Bible - Do we the Bible have some errors. Yes. We don’t believe it’s completely error free. Yet, what teaching in regards to salvation do we reject from the Bible? You won’t find one.
6. The Cross was an unnecessary act of murder. - This is just a blatant lie. I’d need evidence of this claim in order to dispute. We do believe Jesus suffered in Gethsemane to pay for our sins to overcome spiritual death, and to die on the cross to overcome physical death. The absolute irreverent disrespectful tone (ie. “He just needed to squeeze out some blood and call it good.”) is evidence of where the authors heart is.
* Mormons believe in Blood Atonement - Brigham Young was probably the only mormon that believed it, along with the Adam-God theory. It’s not found in the Standard Works.
7. God doesn’t live in you, He lives at the Temple and you’ll need your recommend card to get in - again, a blatant lie. Each member is given the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands where they are told to “Receive the Holy Ghost”. (Read 2 Ne 32 on how we should continually live by the Holy Ghost.)
Baptism makes the covenant that expresses that we are WILLING to take upon the name of Christ. The temple is where it is sealed upon us by covenant. Again, not to “save” us, but to express our faith and to obey God’s commandments.

So there ya go. I’ve defended my ideas. Your turn.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Part 3

So.... is salvation a free gift in Mormonism, or not? Because the bible says that it is.

Paul even deals with this at great length in his letters.

Romans 4, and 5, then this one in Romans 11

Rom 11:6 NKJV - And if by grace, then [it is] no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if [it is] of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.​

So..... if what Mormonism actually does claim that you're not going to get to heaven, unless you perform some kind of works--- telling others, having your marriage sealed in the temple, wearing some special garments, etc.... then be proud Mormons, and own it. Don't try to pussy-foot around it. Just own it.

Here's the problem I have with this....
The bible says that salvation is a gift.
So, the LDS, and the bible cannot both be right. They can both be wrong, but not both right.

Rom 11:6 NKJV - And if by grace, then [it is] no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if [it is] of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
Grace is a gift, but we need to receive it. We receive it on faith, evidenced by our works. It’s not the works, themselves, that saves us. No one is sprinkling foreheads, or dunking kids just to make sure “the work is done.” In fact, if Mormons believe in works based salvation, why does the Book of Mormon teach against infant baptism?

Jesus, Peter, and Paul all taught baptism for the reception of the Holy Ghost. Paul even re-baptized those that had only received John’s baptism. Why? It’s not works based salvation - it’s faith in action.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Well, it's pretty obvious these guys just want to rant, and have no basis for their complaint, so let's see how this works.



What.... exactly, is untrue about this statement?
I.e., someone who is Mormon.
Does the Mormon church not believe that as man is, God once was?
Does the Mormon church not believe that as God now is, man can become?
Because if this is the case, then why be ashamed of it? Why not own it. Be proud Mormons.

the problem I have with it is that it sounds like what the serpent told Eve in the Garden.

You can become like God.

And considering we read in Isaiah 14, he wanted to be the Most High, I have a problem with that.

They try to "weasel" out of the accusation of "polytheism".
They CLAIM it means, "worship many gods", and they claim they only worship one god, they worship the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. So only worshipping one out of many (allegedly) existing gods is technically "henothism".

Their preferred term is "plural gods", which means EXACTLY the same as "polytheism".
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Part 5

5. The Bible is inerrant…insomuch as it is accurately translated.​

“We believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly; We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God” (Mormon 8th Article of Faith)​
Mormons have their own version of the King James Bible, translated by Joseph Smith and consider it to be the only accurate version in existence.​
This is in direct contradiction of Psalm 138:2 (“He places His word above His own name”); and Isaiah 55:11 (“My Word goes out from My mouth…”); and Hebrews 4:12 (“The Word of God is alive and active…”). For Christians, the Word of God is enough. It confirms itself.​
The Book of Mormon is considered preeminent to the Bible and they also carry the Pearl of Great Price (a book of wisdom) and the Doctrine & Covenants (their “law”). These are not to be questioned, ever. Many Mormons have serious questions about Scriptural conflicts, or about things Christians have challenged them with, but they don’t ask, don’t tell.​

So.... the question here is--- is the bible accurately translated?
Because if not, then God is a liar, and cannot ensure what he says in Psalm 138:2, Isaiah 55, Hebrews 4:12, are actually correct.
Furthermore, how could we know which parts are accurately translated?
If God's Word is not true, He does not actually exalts his word above his own name, his word does not go out of his mouth, his word is not alive, and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, capable of cutting asunder even to the thoughts and intents of the heart...... we have a serious problem, and nobody can be believed.

So..... I'd say..... does the LDS church believe that their own bible is the only correctly translated version? If so, I wonder why would they call it the KJV?
Why not call it the JST, or something that clearly defines it as the LDS/Mormon translation? Why obfuscate things, when they clearly want accolades for saving the church from extinction..... and considering that Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against his church, I find myself wondering why it needed to be saved from extinction to begin with.
Or is that one of those passages which got mis-translated? Jesus didn't actually say that?


So.... again I ask.... if this is what the LDS/Mormon ideology is about.... be proud Mormons. Don't pussy-foot around. Own it! All of it.

What, exactly, is the falsehood here in what this segment of the article is saying?
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Part 4
So.... again..... Does the LDS/Mormon church actually believe this? Does the word of the prophet trump the word of YHVH?
No. We don’t.

If so--- be proud Mormons. Own it. Don't pussy-foot around. Don't beat around the bush.... OWN IT!
Be a humble listener. Do your own research, and use your brain.

Because the bible is really clear on this....
No prophet's word EVER trumps YHVH's word.

Deuteronomy 13, and 18, as well as Jeremiah, the Psalms..... they all deal with this issue.

It's ok if that's what the Mormon church teaches. Be proud Mormons and own it. but don't think for a single heartbeat that the mormon church is THE true Church of God. Because it's not. It's just another cult, who are filled with religious people who refuse to follow Jesus. They may indeed follow the Book of Mormon, PotC, and D&C. But those are not "extra" revelation by YHVH.
We don’t believe “Sola Scriptura” is Reformed Christianity does. Like the Catholics, we believe scripture is “materially sufficient” but not “formally sufficient”.

The word of God is taught by the Spirit (John 14:26), scripture (per your argument), and the Church (Eph 4:11-13)

Because the priesthood is restored, it is the only church that can perform ordinances that can be bound on earth and in heaven. No other church can make that claim.

Moreover, YOU don’t have to take my word for it. You can read the BoM and God will tell you himself it’s true.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Ok. Part 2



So.... again...... does the Jesus of Mormonism have a brother?
Does the God of Mormonism have a wife?

From the LDS church's official website:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all human beings, male and female, are beloved spirit children of heavenly parents, a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. This understanding is rooted in scriptural and prophetic teachings about the nature of God, our relationship to Deity, and the godly potential of men and women. The doctrine of a Heavenly Mother is a cherished and distinctive belief among Latter-day Saints."



Also from the LDS church's official website:

"On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some—especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers. Jesus Christ was with the Father from the beginning. Lucifer, too, was an angel “who was in authority in the presence of God,” a “son of the morning.” (See Isa. 14:12; D&C 76:25–27.) Both Jesus and Lucifer were strong leaders with great knowledge and influence. But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Lucifer’s older brother. (See Col. 1:15; D&C 93:21.)"
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Part 3



So.... is salvation a free gift in Mormonism, or not? Because the bible says that it is.

Paul even deals with this at great length in his letters.

Romans 4, and 5, then this one in Romans 11

Rom 11:6 NKJV - And if by grace, then [it is] no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if [it is] of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.​

So..... if what Mormonism actually does claim that you're not going to get to heaven, unless you perform some kind of works--- telling others, having your marriage sealed in the temple, wearing some special garments, etc.... then be proud Mormons, and own it. Don't try to pussy-foot around it. Just own it.

Here's the problem I have with this....
The bible says that salvation is a gift.
So, the LDS, and the bible cannot both be right. They can both be wrong, but not both right.

Rom 11:6 NKJV - And if by grace, then [it is] no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if [it is] of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

This comes from the Book of Mormon:

2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

"After all we can do".

I've had it explained to me that "salvation" can have many meanings.

The salvation that comes by "grace" is nothing more than resurrection, and which is universal.
But to get "exaltation", you have to do "all you can do", which includes a number of different things.

What hasn't been explained to me is what kind of salvation comes from "believing". It must be somewhere in the middle?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Part 6

6. The Cross was an unnecessary act of murder.​

Mormons will gladly talk with you about the “atonement” and “shed blood” of Jesus Christ and they’ll say all the right things and you’ll accept their invitation to church.​
For the LDS Church, the “shed blood” of Jesus occurred in the Garden of Gethsemane, when He cried and sweated out blood, from the understandable stress of knowing He was about to die. They absolutely and unequivocally do not believe that Jesus needed to die as a propitiation for sin. He just needed to squeeze out some blood and call it good.​
Additionally, tragically and disappointingly (for Jesus), His blood wasn’t enough to cover all sin. In fact, Mormons teach a doctrine of “blood atonement,” a cleansing from the most serious sins whereby people must shed their own blood to atone.​
Traditionally Mormons would not be caught dead wearing a cross as jewelry, but you will see it more now than ever. Not because they believe in it – because they know you do – and they want to talk.​

Wow.... so.... is this true?
Do Mormon's believe that the cross that Jesus died on was an unnecessary act of murder?
Hmm...... this is kind of spooky. I mean, if God could not prevented his own Son from being assassinated, then he's not much of a god. Definitely not one I'd expect to claim YHVH status.

especially since Jesus even told Peter--- can I not call on my Father, to give me 12 legions of angels? Matthew 26:53
12 legions..... do you have any idea how many soldiers are in a legion?

6,000.
I cannot imagine 72,000 angels showing up to kick the patootie out of the Romans, and the Jewish leadership. and yet I can imagine them just chomping at the bit, begging to be given the leave to do so.

So.... is this true? Because if this really is what the LDS/Mormon church believes..... be proud about it.

But know too..... your view of the cross is not the biblical view.

Something else that comes to mind here--- How many copies of the bible survived ancient, medieval, and renaissance times through to today?

I've heard upwards of thousands. In the tens of thousands.

I'm curious how there cannot be even a couple of dozen copies that did not make it, which had an accurate translation.

So..... seems to me that you have a problem.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
In fact, if Mormons believe in works based salvation, why does the Book of Mormon teach against infant baptism?

That's a non-sensical question.
Mormons DO believe in "works based salvation".
That's why they are constantly quoting James 2, and constantly running away from all the "not by works" passages.

What "infant baptism" has to do with anything, I have absolutely no idea.

I would suggest to you that Mormons believe in works based salvation even though they don't practice infant baptism, for the simple reason that Mormons don't believe infant baptism is one of the works "required".

I would also suggest that Mormons don't baptize babies because they believe in proxy baptisms for the dead, and they can always baptize on their behalf later on. Actually, thank you for pointing this out, since according to Mormon belief regarding baptism, you SHOULD baptize babies.

Jesus, Peter, and Paul all taught baptism for the reception of the Holy Ghost.

No, they didn't.
And that's why you didn't bother to provide any Bible quotes, right?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Last part.... but not least.....


7. God doesn’t live in you, He lives at the Temple and you’ll need your recommend card to get in.​

The Mormon religion incorporates a number of Masonic rituals and other aspects borrowed from the world’s religions, including paganism.​
A temple and a ward are two different things. A ward is like a church and everyone can go. The temple is a holy place and if you are deemed worthy to enter, you will be given a “Temple Recommend” card to present at your entry. This card can include information about your tithing records, your good works, your lifestyle, reports on behavior, sins and anything else that might disqualify you for entry.​
The Temple is held in high regard and one must earn the right to enter the holiest rooms through acts of service for the dead. Once you have been given the ordinance and those acts are performed in the temple and you are wearing your white garments, you are allowed into the Celestial Room where you will feel the Holy Spirit the strongest because He is drawn to your good works for people who have died and cannot perform them for themselves (this includes baptism).​
There are a number of concerning theological differences between the LDS Church and the Christian faith. This article has given you a very high-level breakdown of some of the larger issues to be aware of and of what is taught in the mainstream LDS Church.​
However, if you talk to a Mormon these days, you’re less likely to hear the odd stuff about one day ascending to your own planet, or the necessity of polygamy to salvation or reincarnation, or even Joseph Smith and his golden tablets.​
You’re more likely to hear Mormons discuss such reasonable topics as “atonement,” “grace,” “salvation,” “there is only One True God,” and “Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” It all sounds legit, right? But now you know and knowing is half the battle!​
These are not points of argument to contend over with Mormons. There are better and more effective ways to reach them for Christ than to attack their religion.​
However, don’t be asleep in the light either! Some Mormons are more well-versed in Christian theology than Christians are!​
It’s important we hold fast to the truths of our Christian faith and seek God’s direction as we make disciples in a world of confusion.​



Wow.... so, God does not inhabit me..... Yet, this is exactly what the bible says. Ezekiel 36:27, Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:21-22, 5:5, Romans 8, God has given us His Spirit for a down payment, a deposit, a guarantee, to teach me, to direct, and guide me. John 14, John 16.

Is this true? Is this really what the LDS/Mormon Church teach? What is not true about what they're saying in this article?
If so--- seriously! Be Proud Mormons! Own it. Don't be whiney about it.

So.... all sections of the article have now been posted.
I've asked numerous questions scattered throughout my comments on the article's points.
What is false about the article?
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Part 5

So.... the question here is--- is the bible accurately translated?
The claim Mormons make is “plain and precious things have been removed”. It’s all there, just not plain to cause multiple interpretations.

Because if not, then God is a liar, and cannot ensure what he says in Psalm 138:2, Isaiah 55, Hebrews 4:12, are actually correct.
Who’s talking AT who now? I don’t believe God is a liar, so...
The Bible also teaches God will do nothing save he revealer has his secrets unto his servants the prophets (Amos 3:9) Was he lying then?

Furthermore, how could we know which parts are accurately translated?
Great question. First, tell me a scripture you think I don’t accept, and then we’ll discuss.

If God's Word is not true, He does not actually exalts his word above his own name, his word does not go out of his mouth, his word is not alive, and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, capable of cutting asunder even to the thoughts and intents of the heart...... we have a serious problem, and nobody can be believed.
Agreed.

So..... I'd say..... does the LDS church believe that their own bible is the only correctly translated version? If so, I wonder why would they call it the KJV?
Our authority isn’t derived from text, so the question is irrelevant.


Why not call it the JST, or something that clearly defines it as the LDS/Mormon translation? Why obfuscate things, when they clearly want accolades for saving the church from extinction..... and considering that Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against his church, I find myself wondering why it needed to be saved from extinction to begin with.
Or is that one of those passages which got mis-translated? Jesus didn't actually say that?
The devil hasn’t prevailed against Gods church, there was just a falling away. (2 Thes 2:3)

So.... again I ask.... if this is what the LDS/Mormon ideology is about.... be proud Mormons. Don't pussy-foot around. Own it! All of it.
Again, I ask...be humble, listen, use your own brain, not the naysayers narrative.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Part 5

So.... the question here is--- is the bible accurately translated?
Because if not, then God is a liar, and cannot ensure what he says in Psalm 138:2, Isaiah 55, Hebrews 4:12, are actually correct.

From the Mormon Scripture, "Pearl of Great Price":

(Articles of Faith)
AoF 8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

The fact that the Bible has the qualifier "as far as it is translated correctly", but the BoM doesn't, strongly implies that they believe the Bible has errors, but the BoM doesn't.

Furthermore, how could we know which parts are accurately translated?

Exactly!
They love to quote the Bible, but as long as they teach it is not correctly translated, they have NO CLUE as to whether the verses they cite are accurate.

So..... I'd say..... does the LDS church believe that their own bible is the only correctly translated version? If so, I wonder why would they call it the KJV?
Why not call it the JST, or something that clearly defines it as the LDS/Mormon translation? Why obfuscate things, when they clearly want accolades for saving the church from extinction..... and considering that Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against his church, I find myself wondering why it needed to be saved from extinction to begin with.

They actually have a "JST", or "Joseph Smith Translation", also called the "Inspired Version".
Unfortunately, I believe the "Community of Christ" (formerly, RLDS) holds the copyright on it, so the LDS church uses the KJV instead.

You can find a number of JST passages here:


Look up Romans 4. I dare you! ;)
 
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