A different gospel?

Carbon said:
Personally I believe in imputation. I believe it’s clearly taught in scripture.

I believe people need to study and figure this one out. If scripture teaches imputation of Christ’s righteousness and we disagree with it; which Christ do we believe in?
It’s important we believe in the right Jesus Christ. Many have their own Jesus, the Mormons, JW’s, etc… etc…
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My last attempt to answer this post wasn't clear. I want again.

If Christ teaches something, and a person does not believe it, it doesn't necessarily mean this person is disagreeing with Jesus.
 
Simpletruther said:
My last attempt to answer this post wasn't clear. I want again.

If Christ teaches something, and a person does not believe it, it doesn't necessarily mean this person is disagreeing with Jesus.
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Does not believe it?
Would you wonder why? Not believing something Jesus taught is a clear indication of disagreement, or at least possibly headed to disagreement.

When Jesus said, “I and the Father are One.”
And you don’t believe it, isn’t that disagreeing with Him?
I think it is.

Do you have an example that works better for your point?

Curious
 
civic said:
so you can see what someone is saying, their mannerism, tone, gestures, facial expressions , voice inflection , etc.....
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Mannerisms, tone, gestures, facial expressions, voice inflections are as important to me as they are to the Biblical record. I do all I can to follow The Lord revealed in Scripture.
 
Carbon said:
Then your agreeing with Dave. ?
Dave’s a smart man and has a great understanding. So agreeing with him is good.

How do you know what I need? We just recently met here. Give it a break.

Well either we do or don’t. If we don’t, then it’s simple, we got it wte David's assertion of God having no free will as long as it is to be found in S.
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Carbon said:
Then your agreeing with Dave. ?
Dave’s a smart man and has a great understanding. So agreeing with him is good.

How do you know what I need? We just recently met here. Give it a break.

Well either we do or don’t. If we don’t, then it’s simple, we got it wrong.
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Yes, I agree you view Dave as a smart man. I cited his statement to see the fruit of it, and to verify its actual merit.
 
Carbon said:
Personally I believe in imputation. I believe it’s clearly taught in scripture.
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Right here it does

Romans 4:3-5 (KJV)
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

or Calvin(1856)

Rom 4:3 But what saith the Scripture? "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness."
Rom 4:4 To him indeed who works the reward is not imputed as a grace, but as a debt:
Rom 4:5 But to him who works not, but believes on him who justifies the ungodly, imputed is his faith for righteousness.
 
Carbon said:
Does not believe it?
Would you wonder why? Not believing something Jesus taught is a clear indication of disagreement, or at least possibly headed to disagreement.

When Jesus said, “I and the Father are One.”
And you don’t believe it, isn’t that disagreeing with Him?
I think it is.

Do you have an example that works better for your point?

Curious
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Believers don't always believe the right things simply out of misunderstanding, misinterpetation.
 
Jabez said:
Their fruits give witness. Paul states in 1 Cor. 5:12 we are to judge those in the Church.
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Jabez said:
Their fruits give witness. Paul states in 1 Cor. 5:12 we are to judge those in the Church.
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Yea, we judge soecific individuals for specific offenses, not blanket judgements on people you suspect have a bad motivation.

You are judging the heart without knowing it. There is nothing inherently sinful about debating fine points and meanings of words.
 
Carbon said:
He denies Adam as being historical.
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History is much more flexible than the truth, hence it is not history, but the truth that sets one free.
Carbon said:
He denies a crucial component of justification, namely imputation.”
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If one is never made righteous, then imputation allows one to sin with impunity. Only the depraved heart would ever find this to be good news.

Conversely, the sins which are imputed to Christ must result in an actual sacrifice or penalty being carried out. Likewise, the righteousness that is imputed must result in actual benefits or rewards that the damned cannot accept. Only the righteous can withstand the glory God bestows upon them. Therefore they must be righteous rather than simply being imputed with righteousness.
 
Carbon said:
There are just to many passages from both the old and new testaments to list which teach Jesus is God.
Thinking particularly on John 1.
In the beginning was the Word,
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Note that he never says, "in the beginning was God" because God is the origin which should never be conflated with the beginning. Note also that the word exists "in" the beginning rather than being the origin of the beginning.
Carbon said:
and the Word was with God,
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Note that the two are distinguished rather than conflated.
Carbon said:
and the Word was God.
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If one wants to equate the two, then John is contradicting himself. Therefore John is building on what he's already presented. The only way to make sense of this passage is to see that the Word manifests or reveals God. This would be right in line with Jesus' own claim to his mission to "reveal the father".
Carbon said:
He was in the beginning with God.
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Again, note that he distinguishes between the two.
Carbon said:
All things were made through him,
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Not through God who is the origin of everything made. (1 Corinthians 8:6)
Carbon said:
and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
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Most especially the man, Jesus Christ.
 
shnarkle said:
History is much more flexible than the truth, hence it is not history, but the truth that sets one free.

If one is never made righteous, then imputation allows one to sin with impunity. Only the depraved heart would ever find this to be good news.

Conversely, the sins which are imputed to Christ must result in an actual sacrifice or penalty being carried out. Likewise, the righteousness that is imputed must result in actual benefits or rewards that the damned cannot accept. Only the righteous can withstand the glory God bestows upon them. Therefore they must be righteous rather than simply being imputed with righteousness.
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?
 
shnarkle said:
Note that he never says, "in the beginning was God" because God is the origin which should never be conflated with the beginning. Note also that the word exists "in" the beginning rather than being the origin of the beginning.

Note that the two are distinguished rather than conflated.

If one wants to equate the two, then John is contradicting himself. Therefore John is building on what he's already presented. The only way to make sense of this passage is to see that the Word manifests or reveals God. This would be right in line with Jesus' own claim to his mission to "reveal the father".

Again, note that he distinguishes between the two.

Not through God who is the origin of everything made. (1 Corinthians 8:6)

Most especially the man, Jesus Christ.
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?
 
Jabez said:
Theological hair splitting for the accomplishment of useless pride. Nothing more than an Evangelical Talmud.
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They have a very lofty view of man, no novelty, same old Pelagianism.
 
Jabez said:
Theological hair splitting for the accomplishment of useless pride. Nothing more than an Evangelical Talmud.
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Not at all

Scripture spoke

You either believe it or not

Rom 4:3 But what saith the Scripture? "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness."

Rom 4:5 But to him who works not, but believes on him who justifies the ungodly, imputed is his faith for righteousness.
 
Ladodgers6 said:
They have a very lofty view of man, no novelty, same old Pelagianism.
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Believing the word of God is pelagianism ?

Rom 4:3 But what saith the Scripture? "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness."

Rom 4:5 But to him who works not, but believes on him who justifies the ungodly, imputed is his faith for righteousness.

Hate to break it to you but believing God's word and not some man's theology is what we are called to do
 
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