A Mormon tries to attack "Faith Alone"

Theo1689

Well-known member
The whole claim by the faith alone is exaggerated. The only time I have seen any explanation--is just what you and Theo have posted here--nothing.

Let the record show that this poster thinks the following comprehensive exegesis is "nothing":








We've addressed this SO many times for you in the past.
But you simply IGNORE it.

Just like you ignore the following:

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Just like you ignore the following:

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Just like you ignore the following:

Tit. 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Just like you ignore the following:

Rom. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,


Just like you ignore the following:

Rom. 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.





So for the millionth time, let's address your proof-text where you take an interpretation that CONTRADICTS the rest of the Bible:


James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

As Jeff Durbin likes to point out, this passage is NOT about "faith vs. works". This passage is about "living faith" vs. "dead faith".

Here he gives and example of someone who CLAIMS to have faith. That faith may be true, or it may be false. The fact that he "does not have works" shows that the faith is false. He then says, "can THAT faith save him" (the word "that" which is found in the ESV is justified, because the word "faith" is articulated, specifying a particular kind of faith, since it has the definite article, referring back to the previous mention of "faith".

"Can that faith save him?" is a rhetorical question, and the obvious answer is "no, it can't". But it's not because he has a true "faith", but simply hasn't added "works" to it. It is because he has a "dead faith" (v.17), instead of a "living" faith.

15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

If one truly has faith, they will not simply give "well-wishing". They will actually DO something to help the needy. True faith WORKS.

In fact, I believe John MacArthur has written a book called, "Faith Works", which you would do well to read. For that matter, you would do well to read the two chapters on "Faith" in C.S. Lewis' famous work, "Mere Christianity".

James 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

"I will show you my faith BY my works".

Works are not simply something you "add" to your faith, they are something that DEMONSTRATES the faith you already have. They are the FRUITS of a living faith, the EVIDENCE of a living faith, the JUSTIFICATION of a proclamation of faith.

You can tell if someone has faith BY their works.
If someone claims to have faith, but has no works, they don't have "faith", and their claim is false. If they had a true faith, a living faith, that faith would RESULT in good works.

Works aren't something you "add" to faith.
Works are something that FLOWS from a true, living faith.

But works aren't "required" for salvation (which is "not by works", Eph. 2:9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, Rom. 11:5-6, etc. etc.), they are something that provide EVIDENCE for faith, which faith saves.

19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Now James gets into the double meaning of "pistis". It can mean "faith" or "trust", or it can simply mean, "acknowledge something as true", which is how the demons believe. A faith or trust WILL result in good works (as explained above).

20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

The term "justified" can sometimes mean "saved" in Biblical context, but it can also men "vindicated". And this is how it is being here. James began this narrative with someone who simply CLAIMED to have faith, but did not have works. And James explained how works DEMONSTRATE a true faith ("I will SHOW you my faith BY my works"). So when we see works, they JUSTIFY the man's claim to having faith.


So we go back to the "not by works" passages (Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, Rom. 11:5-6, etc. etc.) which you will not touch with a ten-foot pole.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Christ is the judge, right now, not just ultimately. Man is too blind to judge, regardless how ‘saved’ he judges himself to be.
You know very well if you follow the way of Jesus Christ to walk as He walks in His same light as jesus did to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. Judgment is not up to God at all, He has clearly stated who you should be like Him and in His same image. Judgment is your own and you know very well if you follow the way of Jesus Christ to be as He is and walk as He walks to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. That judgment is already made and you know the verdict already.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Let the record show that this poster thinks the following comprehensive exegesis is "nothing":








We've addressed this SO many times for you in the past.
But you simply IGNORE it.

Just like you ignore the following:

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Just like you ignore the following:

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Just like you ignore the following:

Tit. 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Just like you ignore the following:

Rom. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,


Just like you ignore the following:

Rom. 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.





So for the millionth time, let's address your proof-text where you take an interpretation that CONTRADICTS the rest of the Bible:


James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

As Jeff Durbin likes to point out, this passage is NOT about "faith vs. works". This passage is about "living faith" vs. "dead faith".

Here he gives and example of someone who CLAIMS to have faith. That faith may be true, or it may be false. The fact that he "does not have works" shows that the faith is false. He then says, "can THAT faith save him" (the word "that" which is found in the ESV is justified, because the word "faith" is articulated, specifying a particular kind of faith, since it has the definite article, referring back to the previous mention of "faith".

"Can that faith save him?" is a rhetorical question, and the obvious answer is "no, it can't". But it's not because he has a true "faith", but simply hasn't added "works" to it. It is because he has a "dead faith" (v.17), instead of a "living" faith.

15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

If one truly has faith, they will not simply give "well-wishing". They will actually DO something to help the needy. True faith WORKS.

In fact, I believe John MacArthur has written a book called, "Faith Works", which you would do well to read. For that matter, you would do well to read the two chapters on "Faith" in C.S. Lewis' famous work, "Mere Christianity".

James 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

"I will show you my faith BY my works".

Works are not simply something you "add" to your faith, they are something that DEMONSTRATES the faith you already have. They are the FRUITS of a living faith, the EVIDENCE of a living faith, the JUSTIFICATION of a proclamation of faith.

You can tell if someone has faith BY their works.
If someone claims to have faith, but has no works, they don't have "faith", and their claim is false. If they had a true faith, a living faith, that faith would RESULT in good works.

Works aren't something you "add" to faith.
Works are something that FLOWS from a true, living faith.

But works aren't "required" for salvation (which is "not by works", Eph. 2:9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, Rom. 11:5-6, etc. etc.), they are something that provide EVIDENCE for faith, which faith saves.

19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Now James gets into the double meaning of "pistis". It can mean "faith" or "trust", or it can simply mean, "acknowledge something as true", which is how the demons believe. A faith or trust WILL result in good works (as explained above).

20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

The term "justified" can sometimes mean "saved" in Biblical context, but it can also men "vindicated". And this is how it is being here. James began this narrative with someone who simply CLAIMED to have faith, but did not have works. And James explained how works DEMONSTRATE a true faith ("I will SHOW you my faith BY my works"). So when we see works, they JUSTIFY the man's claim to having faith.


So we go back to the "not by works" passages (Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, Rom. 11:5-6, etc. etc.) which you will not touch with a ten-foot pole.
Justification comes only if God is manifest in you as He was manifest in Jesus by the same SPirit, mind, walk as He walks be your own disposition.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
We've addressed this SO many times for you in the past.

And--with the same claim--"We've addressed this SO many times".....

Just like you ignore the following:

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Just like you ignore the following:

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Just like you ignore the following:

Tit. 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Just like you ignore the following:


Rom. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,


Just like you ignore the following:

Rom. 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

No one has claimed eternal life is by works, so I'm not sure how you are relating that to the testimony of the Biblical text:

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

IOW--if works are excluded in obtaining salvation--then why are all men judged according to works--after death--and that for His grace unto life--or damnation?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
So for the millionth time, let's address your proof-text where you take an interpretation that CONTRADICTS the rest of the Bible:

James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

As Jeff Durbin likes to point out, this passage is NOT about "faith vs. works". This passage is about "living faith" vs. "dead faith".

I agree. So--why do the faith alone claim one is saved through a faith without works--which James labels as a dead faith?

Here he gives and example of someone who CLAIMS to have faith. That faith may be true, or it may be false. The fact that he "does not have works" shows that the faith is false.

Which "dead faith" is exactly what the faith alone claim one is saved through.

IOW--it's a faith without works the faith alone claim one obtains salvation through--then the works appear--after salvation has occurred.

He then says, "can THAT faith save him" (the word "that" which is found in the ESV is justified, because the word "faith" is articulated, specifying a particular kind of faith, since it has the definite article, referring back to the previous mention of "faith".

"Can that faith save him?" is a rhetorical question, and the obvious answer is "no, it can't". But it's not because he has a true "faith", but simply hasn't added "works" to it. It is because he has a "dead faith" (v.17), instead of a "living" faith.

Then why does the faith alone theology claim one is saved through a faith which excludes all works?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sola fide, or "by faith alone", asserts that good works are not a means or requisite for salvation.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
I agree. So--why do the faith alone claim one is saved through a faith without works--which James labels as a dead faith?



Which "dead faith" is exactly what the faith alone claim one is saved through.

IOW--it's a faith without works the faith alone claim one obtains salvation through--then the works appear--after salvation has occurred.



Then why does the faith alone theology claim one is saved through a faith which excludes all works?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sola fide, or "by faith alone", asserts that good works are not a means or requisite for salvation.

does God give the gift of dead faith?
does God give the gift of a useless faith?
does God give the gift of a demon-like faith?
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
I agree. So--why do the faith alone claim one is saved through a faith without works--

We don't (since you asked).

which James labels as a dead faith?

You see? This is why you constantly misrepresent us.
You want to be able to mud-sling James' "dead faith" onto us.
So you have to falsely CLAIM we believe in "a faith without works".
And when we tell you we don't, your bogus criticism goes away.
So you have to keep misrepresenting us, so you can hope to keep your criticism.





Which "dead faith" is exactly what the faith alone claim one is saved through.

Of course we do NOT "claim" that.

IOW--it's a faith without works the faith alone claim one obtains salvation through--

No, that is NOT what we "claim".

then the works appear--after salvation has occurred.

Congratulations!
You just contradicted yourself, and admitted that we believe in a faith that DOES produce works. You simply try to deny them simply because they appear after salvation.


Then why does the faith alone theology claim one is saved through a faith which excludes all works?

The faith doesn't "exclude all works".
The SALVATION "excludes all works".

For the 157th time, I'm sure you will (again) IGNORE all of these:


Eph. 2:8 ... And this is not your own doing ...
Eph. 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
2 Tim. 1:9 who saved us ... not because of our works
Tit. 3:5 he saved us, not because of works ...
Rom. 4:5 And to the one who does not work ... his faith is counted as righteousness,
Rom. 4:6 ... the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Rom. 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works;
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
does God give the gift of dead faith?

No--so why do the faith alone claim one is saved through a faith without works? (dead faith)

James 2:18-26----King James Version
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
No--so why do the faith alone claim one is saved through a faith without works? (dead faith)

James 2:18-26----King James Version
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
are you trying to build a case that during the moment of time between accepting the God-given gift of faith and the doing of a good work makes that God-given faith a "dead faith".

IOW: Does the God -given gift of faith usually start out as a "dead faith" until you do some works to make it alive?
let's say someone reading the Bible at night : or watching a religious show and comes to faith (now a new creature, indwelt by the Holy Spirit) and falls asleep:
At that moment: ARE THEY SAVED?
work out your order of events for salvation and let us know when is that person saved
(let's all watch how this goes)
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
No--so why do the faith alone claim one is saved through a faith without works? (dead faith)

We don't.

James 2:18-26----King James Version
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I've walked through that passage many times, and linked to it JUST as many times.
Why do you simply IGNORE our responses, and simply waste our time with the same refuted question over and over again?

Oh, that's right... It's because you're a Mormon, and when you get moved off our "script", you don't know how to respond, so you simply REPEAT yourself.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
We don't (since you asked).

You see? This is why you constantly misrepresent us.
You want to be able to mud-sling James' "dead faith" onto us.

That's easy--it's the faith alone theology--one is saved through a faith without works. A faith without works is testified as a dead faith:

James 2:18-26----King James Version
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


So you have to falsely CLAIM we believe in "a faith without works".

When it comes to salvation--that's correct.

And--as soon as you reveal to us what works you add to faith in obtaining salvation--you can vindicate your claim it's a false claim. It isn't--and you won't--for the simple reason--you know it's true.

And when we tell you we don't, your bogus criticism goes away.
So you have to keep misrepresenting us, so you can hope to keep your criticism.

Until you reveal to us what works you add to faith in obtaining salvation--the criticism isn't bogus. Faith alone theology has one obtaining salvation through a faith without works--and that's a fact.

And the Biblical text labels a faith without works as a dead faith.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
That's easy--it's the faith alone theology--one is saved through a faith without works. A faith without works is testified as a dead faith:

...

And the Biblical text labels a faith without works as a dead faith.
are you trying to build a case that during the moment of time between accepting the God-given gift of faith and the doing of a good work makes that God-given faith a "dead faith".

IOW: Does the God -given gift of faith usually start out as a "dead faith" until you do some works to make it alive?
let's say someone reading the Bible at night : or watching a religious show and comes to faith (now a new creature, indwelt by the Holy Spirit) and falls asleep:
At that moment: ARE THEY SAVED?
work out your order of events for salvation and let us know when is that person saved
(let's all watch how this goes)
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
That's easy--it's the faith alone theology--one is saved through a faith without works.

That's NOT what "faith alone theology" teaches.

Funny thing how you and your pals throw a hissy-fit whenever we claim what "Mormonism teaches", yet you feel free to misrepresent what WE believe.
Double standards much?

When it comes to salvation--that's correct.

So you admit that you're MISREPRESENTING what we believe.
Thank you for the admission.

And--as soon as you reveal to us what works you add to faith in obtaining salvation--you can vindicate your claim it's a false claim. It isn't--and you won't--for the simple reason--you know it's true.

You don't understand what "faith alone" means.
You do not get to dictate the "terms'.
You need to sit down and shut up and let US tell you what we believe.
You do not get to do that for us.


Until you reveal to us what works you add to faith in obtaining salvation--the criticism isn't bogus. Faith alone theology has one obtaining salvation through a faith without works--and that's a fact.

You continue to conflate "faith without works" (which we DO NOT believe)
with "salvation without works" (which is BIBLICAL).

Or have you forgotten all these passages you keep RUNNING AWAY from?:

Eph. 2:8 ... And this is not your own doing ...
Eph. 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
2 Tim. 1:9 who saved us ... not because of our works
Tit. 3:5 he saved us, not because of works ...
Rom. 4:5 And to the one who does not work ... his faith is counted as righteousness,
Rom. 4:6 ... the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Rom. 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works;
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
we don't

We claim one is saved through a living faith prior to works

You have already stated it's a faith without works in obtaining salvation.

Please do show us anywhere in the Biblical text which testifies a faith without works is a "living faith"?

Quite to the contrary:

James 2:18-26----King James Version
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
You have already stated it's a faith without works in obtaining salvation.

Please do show us anywhere in the Biblical text which testifies a faith without works is a "living faith"?

Quite to the contrary:

James 2:18-26----King James Version
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Abraham was declared righteous/justified by faith prior to works Romans 4

only a living faith can do that
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
dberrie2020 said:


That's easy--it's the faith alone theology--one is saved through a faith without works. When it comes to salvation--that's correct.
And--as soon as you reveal to us what works you add to faith in obtaining salvation--you can vindicate your claim it's a false claim. It isn't--and you won't--for the simple reason--you know it's true.

You don't understand what "faith alone" means.
You do not get to dictate the "terms'.
You need to sit down and shut up and let US tell you what we believe.
You do not get to do that for us.

LOL!!! Well--there we have it, folks. Theo doesn't produce a single, solitary work which is added to faith in obtaining salvation. Because there isn't any, in faith alone theology. That only happens in Biblical theology.

If Theo had one, single, solitary work he could add to faith in obtaining salvation--he would throw it down like Aaron threw down the rod before Pharaoh.

And--if Theo would throw down that rod--then it would become a poisonous serpent, and bite him----as it wouldn't be faith alone theology any longer.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
LOL!!! Well--there we have it, folks. Theo doesn't produce a single, solitary work which is added to faith in obtaining salvation. Because there isn't any, in faith alone theology. That only happens in Biblical theology.

If Theo had one, single, solitary work he could add to faith in obtaining salvation--he would throw it down like Aaron threw down the rod before Pharaoh.

And--if Theo would throw down that rod--then it would become a poisonous serpent, and bite him----as it wouldn't be faith alone theology any longer.

<sigh>

You're still conflating "faith without works" (which we DO NOT believe), with "salvation without works" (which is completely BIBLICAL). When we affirm the latter, you falsely accuse us of believing the former. And that's dishonest.

And in the meantime, we're STILL WAITING for you to address all these passages you keep RUNNING AWAY from:


Eph. 2:8 ... And this is not your own doing ...
Eph. 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
2 Tim. 1:9 who saved us ... not because of our works
Tit. 3:5 he saved us, not because of works ...
Rom. 4:5 And to the one who does not work ... his faith is counted as righteousness,
Rom. 4:6 ... the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Rom. 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works;
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Abraham was declared righteous/justified by faith prior to works Romans 4
I agree. Two thousand years before:

Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

only a living faith can do that
I agree. But the scriptures testify to Abraham's faith above.

Faith alone removes all works in obtaining the promise.

Faith alone theology has precious little in common with the Biblical text.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
LOL!!! Well--there we have it, folks. Theo doesn't produce a single, solitary work which is added to faith in obtaining salvation. Because there isn't any, in faith alone theology. That only happens in Biblical theology.
you have got to be kidding!!!
so if we are not saved by works of the law
and we are not saved by works of righteousness:

still waiting for an answer:
you must have MANY examples of works that are not works of righteousness and not works of the Law:


3 tangible examples please
 
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