A question about the garments of Adam and Eve

[Base12]

Thank you, Base12! Jasher! That book isnt quite considered Holy Scripture though, is it? I'm still going to write to Trey Smith and get his take on this matter.

You are welcome Cloudwatcher.

Personally, I am not a big fan of books that are outside of the Bible. Every time I try to read them I find contradictions. This subject is a perfect example.

I believe that the 'skins' Adam and Eve were clothed with is the skin and flesh we have now. Here is a verse for reference...

Job 10:11
"Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews."

The Church likes to make up stories about how God 'killed an animal' to clothe the Couple. I do not see that anywhere in Scripture.

Hence, there were no actual 'garments' to pass down.

In my opinion, Adam and Eve were 'naked' because they were not yet clothed with a 'Tabernacle Body' or Body Temple yet...

2 Corinthians 5:4
"For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life."

As punishment for the Forbidden Fruit incident, God clothed Adam and Eve with the corrupted Tabernacles (skin and flesh) we have now. Some day we will get the Glorified replacement.

 

[SteveB]

Book of Jasher, Chapter 7, verses 24 to 30...

Jasher

And so it is....

Well, there you go @Cloudwatcher .

24 And the garments of skin which God made for Adam and his wife, when they went out of the garden, were given to Cush. 25 For after the death of Adam and his wife, the garments were given to Enoch, the son of Jared, and when Enoch was taken up to God, he gave them to Methuselah, his son. 26 And at the death of Methuselah, Noah took them and brought them to the ark, and they were with him until he went out of the ark. 27 And in their going out, Ham stole those garments from Noah his father, and he took them and hid them from his brothers. 28 And when Ham begat his first born Cush, he gave him the garments in secret, and they were with Cush many days. 29 And Cush also concealed them from his sons and brothers, and when Cush had begotten Nimrod, he gave him those garments through his love for him, and Nimrod grew up, and when he was twenty years old he put on those garments. 30 And Nimrod became strong when he put on the garments, and God gave him might and strength, and he was a mighty hunter in the earth, yea, he was a mighty hunter in the field, and he hunted the animals and he built altars, and he offered upon them the animals before the Lord.

While I'd read it once before, I obviously didn't pay that close attention to it.

As such, the problem here is that everything I have read regarding this text, it's not the actual book of jasher described in early biblical texts.
Rather, it's a fictional work written around the medieval times.

The Book of Jasher: Ask the Rabbi Response

Is the Book of Jasher a reliable work? Are the dates and information in it accurate? It looks interesting and...

www.aish.com

 

[Cloudwatcher]

You are welcome Cloudwatcher.

Personally, I am not a big fan of books that are outside of the Bible. Every time I try to read them I find contradictions. This subject is a perfect example.

I believe that the 'skins' Adam and Eve were clothed with is the skin and flesh we have now. Here is a verse for reference...

Job 10:11
"Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews."

The Church likes to make up stories about how God 'killed an animal' to clothe the Couple. I do not see that anywhere in Scripture.

Hence, there were no actual 'garments' to pass down.

In my opinion, Adam and Eve were 'naked' because they were not yet clothed with a 'Tabernacle Body' or Body Temple yet...

2 Corinthians 5:4
"For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life."

As punishment for the Forbidden Fruit incident, God clothed Adam and Eve with the corrupted Tabernacles (skin and flesh) we have now. Some day we will get the Glorified replacement.

I've often wondered about that myself, Base12. But Genesis 2:21-23 (before the fall) mentions Adam and Eve were both made of flesh.

 

[Cloudwatcher]

And so it is....

Well, there you go @Cloudwatcher .

24 And the garments of skin which God made for Adam and his wife, when they went out of the garden, were given to Cush. 25 For after the death of Adam and his wife, the garments were given to Enoch, the son of Jared, and when Enoch was taken up to God, he gave them to Methuselah, his son. 26 And at the death of Methuselah, Noah took them and brought them to the ark, and they were with him until he went out of the ark. 27 And in their going out, Ham stole those garments from Noah his father, and he took them and hid them from his brothers. 28 And when Ham begat his first born Cush, he gave him the garments in secret, and they were with Cush many days. 29 And Cush also concealed them from his sons and brothers, and when Cush had begotten Nimrod, he gave him those garments through his love for him, and Nimrod grew up, and when he was twenty years old he put on those garments. 30 And Nimrod became strong when he put on the garments, and God gave him might and strength, and he was a mighty hunter in the earth, yea, he was a mighty hunter in the field, and he hunted the animals and he built altars, and he offered upon them the animals before the Lord.

While I'd read it once before, I obviously didn't pay that close attention to it.

As such, the problem here is that everything I have read regarding this text, it's not the actual book of jasher described in early biblical texts.
Rather, it's a fictional work written around the medieval times.

The Book of Jasher: Ask the Rabbi Response

Is the Book of Jasher a reliable work? Are the dates and information in it accurate? It looks interesting and...

www.aish.com

I found a website with info about both Jasher and Enoch books, but I don't know how true it is because there are no references, only assertions.
Here they are:

Why is the book of Jasher not in the Bible? - Follow In Truth %

A detailed ook into why the book of Jasher is not included in the Bible. Why was it left out? is it really scripture? Find out the truth.

www.followintruth.com

The book of Enoch is not scripture

The book of Enoch is not scripture. It is not part of the inspired Bible. However it is good to read the book as it is good to understand what it contains

www.followintruth.com

 

[SteveB]

I found a website with info about both Jasher and Enoch books, but I don't know how true it is because there are no references, only assertions.
Here they are:

Why is the book of Jasher not in the Bible? - Follow In Truth %

A detailed ook into why the book of Jasher is not included in the Bible. Why was it left out? is it really scripture? Find out the truth.

www.followintruth.com

The book of Enoch is not scripture

The book of Enoch is not scripture. It is not part of the inspired Bible. However it is good to read the book as it is good to understand what it contains

www.followintruth.com

Keep in mind that both books are several thousand years old.

Jasher, dates back to after the flood. That's upwards of 3900 to 4200 years ago.
Enoch dates back to before the flood.

In my understanding, the Genesis narrative is based on what God told Moses and he wrote it down for the record. There are other narratives, but none are corroborated.
Jesus referred to the books of Moses as the pentateuch.

 

[Base12]

I've often wondered about that myself, Base12. But Genesis 2:21-23 (before the fall) mentions Adam and Eve were both made of flesh.

No problemo.

How deep down the Rabbit Hole do you wish to go? There are some subtle details that the average Genesis sermons seems to have ignored.

Detail #1
Notice how you said Genesis 2:21-23 mentions Adam and Eve? Here is something that many folks miss when reading the beginning chapters of the Bible. The name 'Eve' does not appear until Chapter 3...

Genesis 3:20
"And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."

What did Adam call his Wife before the Fall? See that? She had a different name. Why? Because her body was very different. So was Adam's.

Detail #2
Scripture teaches that not all flesh is the same. In addition, there are Bodies Terrestrial and Bodies Celestial...

1 Corinthians 15:39
"All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds."

1 Corinthians 15:40
"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another."

Thus, before the Fall, Adam and his Wife had different flesh than we have now. I do not believe it was 'terrestrial' like we have now, but rather something more 'celestial' as the above verse indicates.

I believe the Fall had to do with going from a 'Spirit' like existence to the 'Physical' existence we experience now. It was quite the Fall.

 

[Base12]

What did Adam call his Wife before the Fall? See that? She had a different name.

No it was not Lilith. This was her name...

Genesis 2:23
"And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

Before the Fall, Eve had a different body and a different name. That name was 'Ishshah'. Most Bibles translate that word as Woman...

Strong's 802: Ishshah
Definition: woman, wife, female

Strong's Hebrew: 802. נָשִׁים (ishshah) -- woman, wife, female

Remember, whatever Adam 'called' something, that was their NAME...

Genesis 2:19
"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."

So why did Ishshah receive a new name after the Fall? Because Ishshah died...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Day means day. Surely die means surely die. Adam and Ishshah DIED on the day they partook of the Forbidden Fruit.

God had to then RE-CREATE the Couple by giving them NEW BODIES. In other words, NEW CLOTHES!

Adam's name stayed the same. Ishshah's name was changed to Eve. Remember the rule of Genesis 2:19. Whenever God creates a new Living Creature, they also receive a NAME. Thus, Adam names this new creation Eve.

The Church lies and teaches that the death of Adam and his Wife were 'Spiritual' in order to circumvent what actually happened. Some Churches teach that the word 'Day' means 'hundreds of years'. No. the original Adam and Ishshah Died completely and totally on the very day they partook.

 

[Base12]

By the way...

The Forbidden Fruit was a Zygote. God gave Adam and Ishshah a choice as to which parents to incarnate from.

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree. SOMEONE felt the garments were magic, I guess. But I'm wondering where Trey Smith got his belief/claim and I want to check it out.

Hi Cloudwatcher, My research has found that the garments are a talisman, and used as a tool of bondage to Mormon's in control

Mormonism finds its foundations in Masonic Freemasonry, both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were masons

The "secret" mormon temple rituals and initiations are straight out of Freemasonry, that Joseph Smith slightly changed, including the names to the first three degrees of initiation

The Word is a mob of Freemasons killed Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum while jailed in 1844 Carthage Illinois for changing the rituals of Freemasonry, a gunfight and Smith died of his injuries?

Early Utah saw Brigham Young controlling who could leave the Salt Lake Valley, his police force was the Danite (Avenging Angels) who would for groups to hunt down any trying to leave without permission, California was their goal

 

[e v e]

I recently came across claims that Ham (Noah's son) stole the garments of Adam and Eve from Noah, and later gave them to his son, Cush. Then Cush gave them to Nimrod. There is nothing in the Bible about this. Does anyone know where this belief came from?

the enemy realm separated us from our eden nature, which is the birthright, thus the garment (=the body we had in eden).

adam did this to the originals of eden, after he betrayed God and went to the enemy.

 

[eternomade]

I recently came across claims that Ham (Noah's son) stole the garments of Adam and Eve from Noah, and later gave them to his son, Cush. Then Cush gave them to Nimrod. There is nothing in the Bible about this. Does anyone know where this belief came from?

These ideas come from the Book of Enoch and Jasher I believe.

 

[Slyzr]

You are welcome Cloudwatcher.

Personally, I am not a big fan of books that are outside of the Bible. Every time I try to read them I find contradictions. This subject is a perfect example.

I believe that the 'skins' Adam and Eve were clothed with is the skin and flesh we have now. Here is a verse for reference...

Job 10:11
"Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews."

The Church likes to make up stories about how God 'killed an animal' to clothe the Couple. I do not see that anywhere in Scripture.

Hence, there were no actual 'garments' to pass down.

In my opinion, Adam and Eve were 'naked' because they were not yet clothed with a 'Tabernacle Body' or Body Temple yet...

2 Corinthians 5:4
"For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life."

As punishment for the Forbidden Fruit incident, God clothed Adam and Eve with the corrupted Tabernacles (skin and flesh) we have now. Some day we will get the Glorified replacement.

Do you see any correlation between "adams cloths and soul.

As the soul being an entrapment covering. (see your ref: 2 cor 5:4 . above)

 

[Slyzr]

Hi Cloudwatcher, My research has found that the garments are a talisman, and used as a tool of bondage to Mormon's in control

Mormonism finds its foundations in Masonic Freemasonry, both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were masons

The "secret" mormon temple rituals and initiations are straight out of Freemasonry, that Joseph Smith slightly changed, including the names to the first three degrees of initiation

The Word is a mob of Freemasons killed Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum while jailed in 1844 Carthage Illinois for changing the rituals of Freemasonry, a gunfight and Smith died of his injuries?

Early Utah saw Brigham Young controlling who could leave the Salt Lake Valley, his police force was the Danite (Avenging Angels) who would for groups to hunt down any trying to leave without permission, California was their goal

Slave propagation?

Noticed the same thing when I was watching a scientology documentary .on

Hi Cloudwatcher, My research has found that the garments are a talisman, and used as a tool of bondage to Mormon's in control

Mormonism finds its foundations in Masonic Freemasonry, both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were masons

The "secret" mormon temple rituals and initiations are straight out of Freemasonry, that Joseph Smith slightly changed, including the names to the first three degrees of initiation

The Word is a mob of Freemasons killed Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum while jailed in 1844 Carthage Illinois for changing the rituals of Freemasonry, a gunfight and Smith died of his injuries?

Early Utah saw Brigham Young controlling who could leave the Salt Lake Valley, his police force was the Danite (Avenging Angels) who would for groups to hunt down any trying to leave without permission, California was their goal

Slave propagation?

Noticed the same thing when I was watching a scientology documentary on TV.

They have their members sign a "million year contract".

 

[Fenuay]

In the Temple Endowment ceremony, "God" fashions fig leaf coverings for Adam and Eve. However, in the Bible, Adam and Eve made fig leaf coverings to hide their nakedness and God rejected their fig leaf coverings and fashioned animal skin coverings for them. It's why they wear the "temple garment" underwear.

That is not what I learned as a (former) Mormon. I was taught that they are worn as a reminder of the covenants made in the Temple. They also help to uphold modesty. Some Mormons have claimed that the garments have saved them from injury and accidents. I don't know about that but they seem to believe it.

 

[Mike McK]

That is not what I learned as a (former) Mormon. I was taught that they are worn as a reminder of the covenants made in the Temple. They also help to uphold modesty. Some Mormons have claimed that the garments have saved them from injury and accidents. I don't know about that but they seem to believe it.

It's what's taught in the Temple Endowment Ceremony.

 

[Fenuay]

I didn't know Mormons revere the garments! So, the undergarments worn under their clothes are a symbol of Adam and Eve's garments? I will have to look into that Mormon belief. I don't think Trey Smith is Mormon. Apparently I can learn all about these garments if I subscribe to his premium content. Can't do that, so I guess I'll have to keep searching the Internet for more info.

That isn't accurate. As a (former) Mormon I can tell you I learned that they are worn as a reminder of the covenants that are made in the Temple. They also help to serve as a reminder to be modest. Some Mormons have claimed that the garments protected them from injury or accidents. Who knows if that's true

 

[Fenuay]

It's what's taught in the Temple Endowment Ceremony.

Not when I went. It was taught that they are a reminder of the Covenants made. Maybe that was an older teaching since they have made changes several times. Or maybe I missed something. When did you go through the temple? I'd be interested to hear why you left as well if you wouldn't mind sharing on the Mormonism forum!

 

[Fenuay]

Thank you SteveB. Yes, he has a lot of videos there on his website, but they are partial content compared to his premium "Partner" content. I am watching some of it now. I like his style, but I think some of his theology is off. He seems to make a lot of connections between obscure knowledge sources in order to create a new theology. I'm sending him an email with some questions about his references. I'll try to post his answers here if I get a reply.

I hope he responds!

 

[Fenuay]

Thank you, Base12! Jasher! That book isnt quite considered Holy Scripture though, is it? I'm still going to write to Trey Smith and get his take on this matter.

Just remember that a council of men decided they knew better than God what was cannon and what wasn't. So there may be something to it!

 

[e v e]

Just remember that a council of men decided they knew better than God what was cannon and what wasn't. So there may be something to it!

thats how the roman canon formed as well.