A REAL president actually doing his job

Thistle

Well-known member
What about the thousands of Taliban fighters tRump let out?
Trump was fully prepared to leave those 2500 Americans in Bagram Air Force Base indefinitely if that's what
was required to achieve the conditions on the ground they were necessary for security.
 

Bob1

Well-known member
Biden made a set of arbitrary decisions about troop levels and a number of other things, in connection with the withdrawal from Afghanistan. Those decisions taken together make this result eminently foreseeable. For example the Taliban asked the Biden administration if America wanted to secure the city of Kabul. Biden said no you do it. The Taliban let the terrorist in and kept the people who were trying to evacuate out. Only a complete fool would not anticipate this. Biden is 100% responsible for these deaths and he was warned not to do this in the process of making these decisions.
And tRump released thousands of Taliban fighters.
 

Bob1

Well-known member
Trump was fully prepared to leave those 2500 Americans in Bagram Air Force Base indefinitely if that's what
was required to achieve the conditions on the ground they were necessary for security.
That didn't answer my question. He released thousands of Taliban fighters. What about that?
 

Thistle

Well-known member
And tRump released thousands of Taliban fighters.
This of course was one of the factors that impacted the conditions of the "conditions dependent withdrawal." There's very little that we could practically trade to the Taliban. But between the two, giving them prisoners or giving them material to equip the fifth largest army on planet earth, I think the prisoners is a far smaller cost. The net result of that might've been that we didn't pull those final 2500 US troops out of Bagram Air Base. This may be news to everyone, but we still have troops in Germany, Japan and Korea.
 

Bob1

Well-known member
This of course was one of the factors that impacted the conditions of the "conditions dependent withdrawal." There's very little that we could practically trade to the Taliban. But between the two, giving them prisoners or giving them material to equip the fifth largest army on planet earth, I think the prisoners is a far smaller cost. The net result of that might've been that we didn't pull those final 2500 US troops out of Bagram Air Base. This may be news to everyone, but we still have troops in Germany, Japan and Korea.
How about NOT releasing thousands of Taliban fighters? THAT would have been better. And between releasing the fighters and leaving behind a relatively small amount of equipment, releasing the fighters was the worse act. The functioning equipment left behind (and not all of it was functioning when left) will eventually degrade over time without the proper maintenance and technical equipment necessary to keep it functioning. Whereas some of those Taliban fighters released have undoubtably engaged in terrorist acts and/or killed American soldiers. But now, thanks to tRump, they're back in action... ready to fight and train new recruits.

As far as the base goes, I doubt the Taliban would agree to an American base remaining on Afghanistan soil.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
How about NOT releasing thousands of Taliban fighters?
If you were negotiating a withdrawal what would have been on the table that the Taliban might want, with respect to eliciting their cooperation?
THAT would have been better.
That doesn't answer the central question about how negotiating happens.
And between releasing the fighters and leaving behind a relatively small amount of equipment,
Relatively small compared to what? That $80 billion worth of equipment would have been enough money to build seven Gerald Ford class aircraft carriers. If they can field the army, and it looks like they can, they will have the fifth best equipped army on planet earth. To any extent that they are not able to use any of this equipment for technical or cape ability reasons, the Chinese will gladly take it off their hands and back-engineer it for a handsome price. Biden's withdraw from with Afghanistan is the single stupidest military maneuver in the history of where warfare.
releasing the fighters was the worse act.
Countries have been releasing POWs at the end of wars for a very long time. Countries that execute all the prisoners before the end of war are properly criticized.
The functioning equipment left behind (and not all of it was functioning when left) will eventually degrade over time without the proper maintenance
No it won't. Anything the Taliban doesn't have use for the Chinese will pay scads of cash for. And trust me, the Taliban understands what cash can do.
and technical equipment necessary to keep it functioning.
Which will not be a problem once the Chinese engineers back-engineer it.
Whereas some of those Taliban fighters released have undoubtably engaged in terrorist acts and/or killed American soldiers. But now, thanks to tRump, they're back in action... ready to fight and train new recruits.
You didn't get the memo? Biden says the war is over! Apparently all you have to do is just stop fighting and the other side will too. At least that's what the Biden administration is telling us…
As far as the base goes, I doubt the Taliban would agree to an American base remaining on Afghanistan soil.
If we were going to keep the Bagram Air Force Base, I doubt the Trump administration would have asked for permission. How do you suppose the Cubans feel about Guantánamo Bay?
 

Bob1

Well-known member
If you were negotiating a withdrawal what would have been on the table that the Taliban might want, with respect to eliciting their cooperation?

That doesn't answer the central question about how negotiating happens.

Relatively small compared to what? That $80 billion worth of equipment would have been enough money to build seven Gerald Ford class aircraft carriers. If they can field the army, and it looks like they can, they will have the fifth best equipped army on planet earth. To any extent that they are not able to use any of this equipment for technical or cape ability reasons, the Chinese will gladly take it off their hands and back-engineer it for a handsome price. Biden's withdraw from with Afghanistan is the single stupidest military maneuver in the history of where warfare.

Countries have been releasing POWs at the end of wars for a very long time. Countries that execute all the prisoners before the end of war are properly criticized.

No it won't. Anything the Taliban doesn't have use for the Chinese will pay scads of cash for. And trust me, the Taliban understands what cash can do.

Which will not be a problem once the Chinese engineers back-engineer it.

You didn't get the memo? Biden says the war is over! Apparently all you have to do is just stop fighting and the other side will too. At least that's what the Biden administration is telling us…

If we were going to keep the Bagram Air Force Base, I doubt the Trump administration would have asked for permission. How do you suppose the Cubans feel about Guantánamo Bay?
No reason to put releasing thousands of Taliban fighters on the table. You claim tRump would have held on to Bagram, even if the Taliban didn't like it. So there's no reason he couldn't have just held on to those thousands of fighters, even if the Taliban didn't like it.

Leaving equipment behind is pretty common when militaries are pulling out of a country. Just requires too much time, logistics, and manpower to pull it all out. Whatever new toys the Taliban has will eventually end up broken over time. The released fighters will go on to fight for years and train new recruits though.
I'm not worried about China. IF they manage to buy anything it will be obsolete by the time they manage to reverse engineer it.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
No reason to put releasing thousands of Taliban fighters on the table.
I do believe the Geneva Convention it has something to say about refusing to release prisoners of war at the end of a conflict.
You claim tRump would have held on to Bagram, even if the Taliban didn't like it. So there's no reason he couldn't have just held on to those thousands of fighters, even if the Taliban didn't like it.
We're not at war with Cuba yet we have Guantánamo Bay.
Leaving equipment behind is pretty common when militaries are pulling out of a country.
No country in the history of warfare has voluntarily left $80 billion worth of the most advanced military fighting equipment behind deliberately. This level of stupidity is unique even even among blithering idiot Democrats.
Just requires too much time, logistics, and manpower to pull it all out.
That may be the stupidest comment ever made on this forum.
Whatever new toys the Taliban has will eventually end up broken over time.
No it won't, they're going to give it to China to back engineer. And Chinese going to give them a bunch of promises which they may or may not keep but whatever the case, China has got plenty of money to buy all of that equipment.
The released fighters will go on to fight for years and train new recruits though.
Yeah well, we go ahead and abide by the Geneva Convention regardless of the mental resources you have available to consider the question.
I'm not worried about China.
Which is a clear reflection on your intelligence.
IF they manage to buy anything it will be obsolete by the time they manage to reverse engineer it.
If that were true Russia would sell them their fifth generation fighters, which they will not. That's why China does not have a fifth generation fighter, because they can't create a jet engine that will go supersonic on cruise. They of course have a fighter they call a fifth generation fighter, but in order to go supersonic they have to turn on the afterburners which means that it has zero stealth capability at that point, meaning it's not a fifth generation fighter.
 

Bob1

Well-known member
I do believe the Geneva Convention it has something to say about refusing to release prisoners of war at the end of a conflict.

We're not at war with Cuba yet we have Guantánamo Bay.

No country in the history of warfare has voluntarily left $80 billion worth of the most advanced military fighting equipment behind deliberately. This level of stupidity is unique even even among blithering idiot Democrats.

That may be the stupidest comment ever made on this forum.

No it won't, they're going to give it to China to back engineer. And Chinese going to give them a bunch of promises which they may or may not keep but whatever the case, China has got plenty of money to buy all of that equipment.

Yeah well, we go ahead and abide by the Geneva Convention regardless of the mental resources you have available to consider the question.

Which is a clear reflection on your intelligence.

If that were true Russia would sell them their fifth generation fighters, which they will not. That's why China does not have a fifth generation fighter, because they can't create a jet engine that will go supersonic on cruise. They of course have a fighter they call a fifth generation fighter, but in order to go supersonic they have to turn on the afterburners which means that it has zero stealth capability at that point, meaning it's not a fifth generation fighter.
Releasing those Taliban fighters was not necessary. You haven't addressed the issue of if America could hold on to an airbase it certainly could hold on to Taliban fighters.

All withdrawing countries leave behind equipment. It takes too much time, money, and logistics to move it all back. Nothing dumb about that. It's a statement of fact. And your boy, tRump, wanted an earlier withdrawal date than what Biden settled on.

No, I'm not the least bit worried about whatever was left. It will breakdown eventually. If any of it gets sold, it will be obsolete by the time the buyer manages to reverse engineer it.

On the other hand, released Taliban fighters will go on to fight, train new recruits, and possibly commit acts of terrorism.

Bottom line is you want to blame Biden for everything without acknowledging tRump's responsibility in letting Taliban fighters go and negotiating a crap deal. tRump failed in Afghanistan just as he failed with North Korea.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Releasing those Taliban fighters was not necessary.
That's your expert interpretation of the Geneva convention? I can see why you weren't consulted.
You haven't addressed the issue of if America could hold on to an airbase it certainly could hold on to Taliban fighters.
We held onto Guantánamo, that doesn't mean we can take and hold onto Cuban prisoners of war.
All withdrawing countries leave behind equipment.
No country in the history of warfare has deliberately left nearly $90 billion worth of state of the art military equipment for their adversaries to dispose of as they wish. If it enlisted man lost one set of night vision goggles his career would be over.
It takes too much time, money, and logistics to move it all back.
And the billions of dollars the cost to develop this technology to give the US Army an advantage over or adversaries that's not too much money? This is a really ignorant comment you've just made.
Nothing dumb about that. It's a statement of fact.
It's a pity you can't see the eyes rolling as everyone reads this comment.
And your boy, tRump, wanted an earlier withdrawal date than what Biden settled on.
Trump made it clear to the Taliban that our withdrawal was entirely conditional on circumstances on the ground, and as things were when he left he wasn't about to reduce troop levels below the 2500.
No, I'm not the least bit worried about whatever was left. It will breakdown eventually. If any of it gets sold, it will be obsolete by the time the buyer manages to reverse engineer it.
I expect that the Chinese are way down the road toward having a lot of this equipment reengineered by now. I'm sure there were plenty of Chinese engineers showing up in Afghanistan on September 1. Before we moved into Afghanistan the Chinese were in the process of finalizing a major raw materials deal with Afghanistan whereby they would extract rare earths and other minerals. So with us now gone, I'm sure the Chinese didn't wait a nanosecond before moving in.
On the other hand, released Taliban fighters will go on to fight, train new recruits, and possibly commit acts of terrorism.
Maybe we should withdraw from the Geneva Convention but so far we've not taken that decision.
Bottom line is you want to blame Biden for everything without acknowledging tRump's responsibility in letting Taliban fighters go and negotiating a crap deal.
The deal that Trump negotiated didn't result in us pulling our final troops out of Afghanistan, did it. That's because the Taliban didn't give us what we wanted. And until they did we weren't going to pull those final troops out of Afghanistan. But that having been said, if the policy is "end of the war" you don't get to keep the prisoners of war.
tRump failed in Afghanistan
Trump actually made Afghanistan sustainable (indefinitely if necessary). And since the pull out conditions for the Taliban were never met that would've been necessary.
just as he failed with North Korea.
What are you talking about? North Korea was completely pacified during the Trump administration. They're back to saber rattling now because Joe Biden is an senile, halfwit, idiot.
 

Bob1

Well-known member
That's your expert interpretation of the Geneva convention? I can see why you weren't consulted.

We held onto Guantánamo, that doesn't mean we can take and hold onto Cuban prisoners of war.

No country in the history of warfare has deliberately left nearly $90 billion worth of state of the art military equipment for their adversaries to dispose of as they wish. If it enlisted man lost one set of night vision goggles his career would be over.

And the billions of dollars the cost to develop this technology to give the US Army an advantage over or adversaries that's not too much money? This is a really ignorant comment you've just made.

It's a pity you can't see the eyes rolling as everyone reads this comment.

Trump made it clear to the Taliban that our withdrawal was entirely conditional on circumstances on the ground, and as things were when he left he wasn't about to reduce troop levels below the 2500.

I expect that the Chinese are way down the road toward having a lot of this equipment reengineered by now. I'm sure there were plenty of Chinese engineers showing up in Afghanistan on September 1. Before we moved into Afghanistan the Chinese were in the process of finalizing a major raw materials deal with Afghanistan whereby they would extract rare earths and other minerals. So with us now gone, I'm sure the Chinese didn't wait a nanosecond before moving in.

Maybe we should withdraw from the Geneva Convention but so far we've not taken that decision.

The deal that Trump negotiated didn't result in us pulling our final troops out of Afghanistan, did it. That's because the Taliban didn't give us what we wanted. And until they did we weren't going to pull those final troops out of Afghanistan. But that having been said, if the policy is "end of the war" you don't get to keep the prisoners of war.

Trump actually made Afghanistan sustainable (indefinitely if necessary). And since the pull out conditions for the Taliban were never met that would've been necessary.

What are you talking about? North Korea was completely pacified during the Trump administration. They're back to saber rattling now because Joe Biden is an senile, halfwit, idiot.
You're trying to excuse tRump releasing thousands of Taliban fighters.

Just because we have Guantanamo doesn't mean we could necessarily have had a base in Afghanistan. Two different countries, two different situations.

It takes more time and logistics to move it all out. No departing military has ever taken all their toys home.

It's a pity you can't see all the eyes rolling as they read your desperate efforts to defend anything and everything tRump has done.

And tRump released thousands of Taliban fighters. More than likely at least some of whom have been involved in terrorism or killed American soldiers.

You claim the Chinese are down the road on reengineering, but you have no evidence.

No, tRump didn't make anything "sustainable". What did you expect, America to just remain in Afghanistan forever?

North Korea wasn't "pacified". They maintained their nuclear arsenal and military. tRump accomplished nothing but giving Kim so good PR photos.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
You're trying to excuse tRump releasing thousands of Taliban fighters.
Do you know what the Geneva convention is? If you do, you know that this comment of yours is total nonsense.
Just because we have Guantanamo doesn't mean we could necessarily have had a base in Afghanistan.
Of course we could've had a base in Afghanistan. The military didn't decide to vacate that bass. The President of the United States ordered that bass to be shut down. Trump didn't shut it down Biden did.
Two different countries, two different situations.
We have bases in Japan, Germany, Korea, and until recent years the Philippines, in addition to Cuba, and we fought wars and all those places. So how many examples would you like?
It takes more time and logistics to move it all out. No departing military has ever taken all their toys home.
$90 billion worth of state of the art weaponry that our enemies don't have, but we do, because we are vastly superior to them, is not taking "toys home."
It's a pity you can't see all the eyes rolling as they read your desperate efforts to defend anything and everything tRump has done.
If this is supposed to be connected to something that I said I have no idea what it is.
And tRump released thousands of Taliban fighters. More than likely at least some of whom have been involved in terrorism or killed American soldiers.
We are signatories to the Geneva convention if we are not in a war we can't keep prisoners of war.
You claim the Chinese are down the road on reengineering, but you have no evidence.
So you think that the Russians won't sell the Chinese a real fifth generation fighter because they don't need the money? They won't sell them a fifth generation fighter because the Chinese don't know how to make a plane that will go supersonic without lighting up the afterburners. If Russia sells them such a plane they will back engineer it, that's the only explanation, Russian needs that money.
No, tRump didn't make anything "sustainable". What did you expect, America to just remain in Afghanistan forever?
When are we leaving Germany? Of course with Biden in the White House it's hard to say what's impossible. If someone had told me that Biden would so totally destroy American for foreign policy to a degree where the French would withdraw their ambassador, I wouldn't have believed it. Biden may be the single stupidest person to ever have a position of authority in any government in the history of the world.
North Korea wasn't "pacified".
They stopped all their saber rattling. Are you confused about the definition of pacified I to?
They maintained their nuclear arsenal and military.
Germany still has an army and they signed an unconditional surrender.
tRump accomplished nothing but giving Kim so good PR photos.
I wouldn't know about that I haven't friended him on Facebook. I'll have to take your word for that.
 
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