A series of videos by Dr. John Lennox, a mathematician

LifeIn

Well-known member
He's a follower of Jesus.
His experience in life, mathematics, etc.... they provide his perspective on such matters.
How do we know he is a follower of Jesus? Because he says so? And what does his being a mathematician add? What if he were a truck driver who was a follower of Jesus, or a hedge fund manager who was a follower of Jesus? Would their view matter any less than the view of a mathematician?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
How do we know he is a follower of Jesus? Because he says so? And what does his being a mathematician add? What if he were a truck driver who was a follower of Jesus, or a hedge fund manager who was a follower of Jesus? Would their view matter any less than the view of a mathematician?
Well..... am I to assume that you're a follower of Jesus because you say so?
And I didn't say that you had to know he was a follower of Jesus. As I've been acquainted with his work for a few years, I know he's a follower of Jesus. As such, I have no idea how "we'd know." Mostly, because there's no "we" here.

Or are you just in a mood where you need to argue about someone whom I think has a pretty good perspective on life, mathematics, and Jesus, due to their age, and education?
 

LifeIn

Well-known member
Well..... am I to assume that you're a follower of Jesus because you say so?
And I didn't say that you had to know he was a follower of Jesus. As I've been acquainted with his work for a few years, I know he's a follower of Jesus. As such, I have no idea how "we'd know." Mostly, because there's no "we" here.

Or are you just in a mood where you need to argue about someone whom I think has a pretty good perspective on life, mathematics, and Jesus, due to their age, and education?
OK, you explained it quite well. I just questioned why you chose to put this in the General Science/Mathematics forum, seeing as how it has nothing to do with either.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
OK, you explained it quite well. I just questioned why you chose to put this in the General Science/Mathematics forum, seeing as how it has nothing to do with either.
I disagree, and had you actually watched some, or even of one the videos, you'd have seen that.
Have a nice day.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
1- by reading it.
2- by asking questions-- of people who had been at it longer than me, in a manner which wasn't argumentative. By asking questions of God, when it seemed the people whom I was asking didn't get it themselves.
3- by doing what it says.
4- by examining the results.
5- by working through the results, and my preconceptions' failures.
6- by reading again to make sure I understood what's actually being said, and not what I think was said.
7- by doing it again, with special attention to what's actually said, and deliberately rejecting my own biases.
8-- repeating this process outlined in 1-7, over and over again, for new passages that I read, showed clear items instructing us to act on them.
I see "asking questions of God", so as predicted you assume the Bible is true.

I see "by doing what it says" is there. Jesus told his followers to giove away all their material goods. Have you done that, Steve? Of course not! Just like the pride issue. To you, the Bible is a buffet; you pick what you choose from it. How can believe what you say here where you so clearly fail to do as Jesus tells, and further more you say that doing what Jesus tells you is foundational to your belief?

Me previously said:
For a specific example, how did you test if Jesus really was seen in Jerusalem after his death? Last time your response was that that was what it says in the Bible. See if you can make a reply that does NOT assume the Bible is true.
that's a matter of historical testimony, and no matter how often I ask, it'll always be having to take the claim on faith.
Right, it is a matter of faith. You have faith that the bible is true, and so believe the Bible.

Thus, I can either believe what is written, other's claim, or I can move on to other matters I can in fact verify for myself.
Which is exactly my point.

You assume the Bible is true, and use that to prove your claims about the Bible.
  • The Bible is true
  • Therefore the Bible is true
I've been doing 1-8 as detailed above, for so long now, and have verified that what I can do, and know, that what is documented as history in the bible, I can rest knowing that it too is true.
But it is all based on the assumption the Bible is true, as you just admitted!

I think this is the major part of the problem people like you have. You spent so much time focusing on gnats, you ignore the elephants.
The elephants are in your imagination Steve.

You assume the elephants exist, and then use that assumption to prove they exist.

It's a pity you never read the post I posted after that, to clarify my point. This just makes you laughably assumptive.
I quoted the post you linked to four times Steve.

Why did you not link to the post that clarifies your point? Why have you not linked to it now? Perhaps because it does not exist? Like those elephants, just a figment of your imagination?

It's a pity you never read the post I posted after that, to clarify my point. This just makes you laughably assumptive.
You clearly stated:

"The positrons bounce off the electrons in the body's cells and while there are many non-coincidental collisions, only the 180° ones are counted."

That shows a laughable degree of ignorance about basic physics. How do you "clarify" something so fundamentally wrong? Do you know what "clarify" means, Steve? It means to make a statement less confused and more comprehensible. Are you saying you later made this more comprehensible?

Or is the Christian-talk for "said the complete opposite".

I'm not the one who is desperate to be right.
And yet still you cannot admit you were wrong about positrons. You just cannot swallow your pride, can you Steve?

I've always been honest here. the Truth is far too much fun to do it any other way.
Then have the honesty to admit you were wrong about positrons.

So, because you assume you are right, regardless of what the truth actually is, nobody else is right?
Based on what you're saying, it's not me with the problem here.
Of course I think I am right; if I thought I was wrong, I would change my mind. this is trivially true of everyone, Steve.

My believes are based on what seems to be true to me. I may be wrong, and someone else may be right. I have the humility to admit that.

Clearly you do not.

What you say of me here is actually more applicable to you, Steve. You are the one utterly sure he is right; you are the one unable to admit he made a mistake.

And to be honest, this is the antithesis of Jesus, who told his followers to act in humility. But why bother with what the bible actually says, right Steve?

And once I take the log out of my eye, will I no longer see the speck in yours?
If you can get the log out of your eye, you will have a lot more credibility here, and you might find non-Christians take you more seriously.

This is not the only thread where atheists are pointing out your faults, as I am sure you know. Admitting you were wrong would rob us of a lot of ammunition. As it is, we can all pile on your because your pride is such a stumbling block.

So, my boast in what God has done on my behalf makes me proud.... rather curious how that works.
You're the one who spouts pride about what you achieve, without help from others.
When have I done that?

I think you are just making stuff up now.

It's clear you only want to win, so if I decide to further assume you're a real human being, who really wants to have an actual conversation, and not just assume you know everything, then I'll do so.
Steve, I have won.

  • You admitted in you first few paragraphs that your arguments assume the Bible is true.
  • You have shown us all your ignorance with your statement about positrons - and similar blunders elsewhere too.
  • You have shown you ignore Jesus' teaching when not convenient by your inability to swallow your pride .

Why would anyone trust your opinion of religion after that Steve?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I see "asking questions of God", so as predicted you assume the Bible is true.

I see "by doing what it says" is there. Jesus told his followers to giove away all their material goods. Have you done that, Steve? Of course not! Just like the pride issue. To you, the Bible is a buffet; you pick what you choose from it. How can believe what you say here where you so clearly fail to do as Jesus tells, and further more you say that doing what Jesus tells you is foundational to your belief?



Right, it is a matter of faith. You have faith that the bible is true, and so believe the Bible.


Which is exactly my point.

You assume the Bible is true, and use that to prove your claims about the Bible.
  • The Bible is true
  • Therefore the Bible is true

But it is all based on the assumption the Bible is true, as you just admitted!
You see. means you assume.
If you're going to assume, then there's no reason to engage you in conversation. No matter what I say, you've already assumed you're right, and I'm wrong, so nothing I say matters.
I'd have more enjoyment talking to a child.



The elephants are in your imagination Steve.

You assume the elephants exist, and then use that assumption to prove they exist.


I quoted the post you linked to four times Steve.

Why did you not link to the post that clarifies your point? Why have you not linked to it now? Perhaps because it does not exist? Like those elephants, just a figment of your imagination?


You clearly stated:

"The positrons bounce off the electrons in the body's cells and while there are many non-coincidental collisions, only the 180° ones are counted."

That shows a laughable degree of ignorance about basic physics. How do you "clarify" something so fundamentally wrong? Do you know what "clarify" means, Steve? It means to make a statement less confused and more comprehensible. Are you saying you later made this more comprehensible?

Or is the Christian-talk for "said the complete opposite".


And yet still you cannot admit you were wrong about positrons. You just cannot swallow your pride, can you Steve?


Then have the honesty to admit you were wrong about positrons.


Of course I think I am right; if I thought I was wrong, I would change my mind. this is trivially true of everyone, Steve.

My believes are based on what seems to be true to me. I may be wrong, and someone else may be right. I have the humility to admit that.

Clearly you do not.

What you say of me here is actually more applicable to you, Steve. You are the one utterly sure he is right; you are the one unable to admit he made a mistake.

And to be honest, this is the antithesis of Jesus, who told his followers to act in humility. But why bother with what the bible actually says, right Steve?


If you can get the log out of your eye, you will have a lot more credibility here, and you might find non-Christians take you more seriously.

This is not the only thread where atheists are pointing out your faults, as I am sure you know. Admitting you were wrong would rob us of a lot of ammunition. As it is, we can all pile on your because your pride is such a stumbling block.


When have I done that?

I think you are just making stuff up now.


Steve, I have won.

  • You admitted in you first few paragraphs that your arguments assume the Bible is true.
  • You have shown us all your ignorance with your statement about positrons - and similar blunders elsewhere too.
  • You have shown you ignore Jesus' teaching when not convenient by your inability to swallow your pride .

Why would anyone trust your opinion of religion after that Steve?
Case in point.

Congratulations. You've successfully demonstrated solipsism.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
You've demonstrated that you still don't understand what solipsism is.
says the man who denies his own solipsism, while actually demonstrating it for us.
Man! It's not possible to make this stuff up.
Kudos N. and thank you for doing such a great job of it for me.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
says the man who denies his own solipsism, while actually demonstrating it for us.
Man! It's not possible to make this stuff up.
Kudos N. and thank you for doing such a great job of it for me.
And yet making stuff up is all you're doing.

I'm not a solipsist as I do not deny the existence of other minds.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
And getting everything wrong.
that's the curious thing about observation... it's neither right nor wrong. It simply is.
It's the interpretation that's either right or wrong.
So, it tells me that you're claiming I'm interpreting the observations I have, which makes you wrong.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
that's the curious thing about observation... it's neither right nor wrong. It simply is.
It's the interpretation that's either right or wrong.
So, it tells me that you're claiming I'm interpreting the observations I have, which makes you wrong.
Not interpreting. Not even misinterpreting. Just straight up misrepresenting.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Not interpreting. Not even misinterpreting. Just straight up misrepresenting.
Read it.
You just might learn something that isn't about you. Granted, NPD sufferers seldom recognize this deficiency about themselves.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Already read it and refuted it.

You just might learn something that isn't about you.
Yes, I've learnt that you are incapable of admitting your mistakes to atheists, and that you have no interest in following Jesus.

Granted, NPD sufferers seldom recognize this deficiency about themselves.
As you prove continuously by absurdly trying to project your narcissism onto others. Anything to avoid admitting you got something wrong.
 
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