A short essay for the Brit who thinks "torture" is a synonym for "punishment"

[The Pixie]

torture
noun: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.

I have a novel thought then.

What is novel about it? Do you know what the word "novel" means, Steve?

Just because you want it this way, and Jesus said that you will be judged by the words of your mouth.
...
As such. For no other reason than this is exactly what you want, you will be tortured, but everyone else will be punished.

What on earth are you talking about Steve?

Matthew 25 clearly states God will inflict intense pain to punish. That is torture. It is as simple as that.

And God isn't the one who will torture you.
You'll be torturing yourself.
There. I think that solves the problem you're having here.

The problem I am having is getting you to admit something can be both torture AND punishment.

Everyone else will experience kolasis, but you.... toompanidzo.

No, Steve. Read what it says. The billions of people who reject God will be tortured AND punished by God.

And your toompanidzo will be the echoing words you spoke, which will act to remind you every moment, throughout eternity.

What are you fantasising about now Steve?

Unless of course you repent, and believe the gospel of Jesus.

Right. It is God saying: Love and worship me, or I will inflict intense pain on you for eternity to punish you.

And apparently you are alright with that, just as long as no one calls it "torture".

He's already taken the punishment that we deserved. So if you actually WANT to be tortured by your own beliefs, then I suppose that's what you'll get.

No one deserved to have intense pain inflicted on them for eternity.

Have YOU done anything that means you deserve that? I am certain you have not. But maybe I have a higher opinion of you than God does.

 

[The Pixie]

...
"Back then Atheist vs. Theist forums were plentiful; sometime during the early 21st century these types of forums began to rapidly decline. I personally think that people began to see the obvious fact that they weren't serving the utopian science atheist cause or working for God, but rather their own ego and ideological fixation that was actually nothing more than a sociopolitical frustration with occidental theocracy. The apostle Paul calls this internal debate externalized an operation of error."

I appreciate it is off-topic, but I think it was at least partly because they moved to places like Facebook and Reddit.

 

[SteveB]

torture
noun: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.


What is novel about it? Do you know what the word "novel" means, Steve?


What on earth are you talking about Steve?

Matthew 25 clearly states God will inflict intense pain to punish. That is torture. It is as simple as that.


The problem I am having is getting you to admit something can be both torture AND punishment.


No, Steve. Read what it says. The billions of people who reject God will be tortured AND punished by God.


What are you fantasising about now Steve?


Right. It is God saying: Love and worship me, or I will inflict intense pain on you for eternity to punish you.

And apparently you are alright with that, just as long as no one calls it "torture".


No one deserved to have intense pain inflicted on them for eternity.

Have YOU done anything that means you deserve that? I am certain you have not. But maybe I have a higher opinion of you than God does.

I see you continue to conflate kolasis with toompanidzo.

I do indeed deserve kolasis.
I've repeatedly violated the law of God.

It's exactly why I have come to Jesus.

The difference appears to be that you believe that you are innocent of any sin, and don't need a savior.

I know that I've violated the law of God and his righteousness. As such, I am daily, and acutely aware of my need for a savior.

As Jesus is the only savior God has explicitly given us, I'm not bothered by this.

So, if you actually want kolasis to be toompanidzo, then you're apparently committing yourself to kolasis, and the consequences will be as severe as you make them.

That'll be all on you, and you alone!

The toompanidzo you experience will be the regret you will live forever with. Not much of a life, but ok. Suit yourself

 

[The Pixie]

torture
noun: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.

I see you continue to conflate kolasis with toompanidzo.
...

I see you continue to pretend torture and punishment are mutually exclusive - despite the word "punish" appearing right in the definition of "torture". If you are obliged to delude yourself like this, I have to wonder what else about your faith is just wilful deusion.

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

I appreciate it is off-topic, but I think it was at least partly because they moved to places like Facebook and Reddit.

That is probably the case because I was never into any of that stuff.

 

[SteveB]

torture
noun: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.


I see you continue to pretend torture and punishment are mutually exclusive - despite the word "punish" appearing right in the definition of "torture". If you are obliged to delude yourself like this, I have to wonder what else about your faith is just wilful deusion.

Well, as you're dedicating yourself to experiencing toompanidzo, but will only receive kolasis from YHVH, should you refuse to turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus, you're the only person who has the power to impose toompanidzo on yourself!

That said, it strikes me that you just don't grasp the level of stupidity you're committed to. Otherwise you would do everything you need to in order to ensure your escape.

Especially since YHVH has explicitly provided the way to escape.

If YHVH wanted to torture you, he never would have said a single word about it.

Yet he provides us with a collection of documents that span over 1600 years, written by 40 different people.

He explains what he created. Why he created it. He then explained what happened to the human race and why things are the way they are.
He the establishes a nation to be a witness to his reality to the world.
And in this nation, he demonstrates why having external religious practices aren't enough, and why political power isn't enough to ensure the well-being of humanity.

Throughout this time in history, God makes a series of promises that he will provide a Messiah to be the sacrifice for his sin of the human race and wholly restore us into a right relationship with him.
He then sent his own Son to be that final sacrifice, he pays the full price, and bears the full brunt of God's righteous judgment due sin.

In this, all he's asking us to do is to believe him. He'll do everything else that is necessary to ensure that we escape the judgment, the kolasis due sin.

 

[The Pixie]

torture
noun: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.

Well, as you're dedicating yourself to experiencing toompanidzo, but will only receive kolasis from YHVH, should you refuse to turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus, you're the only person who has the power to impose toompanidzo on yourself!

I have no idea what you are talking about. Do you?

Firstly, why do you insist on using transliterated Greek? Do you imagine it makes you look clever? Or you argument any more convincing? You are wrong on both counts.

Secondly, I do not want to experience either torture or punishment. That is just your own - somewhat disturbing - fantasy.

That said, it strikes me that you just don't grasp the level of stupidity you're committed to. Otherwise you would do everything you need to in order to ensure your escape.

So you think it is clever to believe something I do not think it true, and to love an entity that inflicts intense pain (as from burning) on billions for eternity to punish them?

Does it sound any better if I omit the word "torture"? I do not think so. I think punishing billions for the supposed sin of rejecting you, and do so by inflicting intense pain (as from burning) to punish for eternity, is absolutely abhorrent.

Apparently I am just too stupid to do that. Guess that is how God made me, right?

Especially since YHVH has explicitly provided the way to escape.

Right, like a mugger gives his victim a way to escape; just hand over that wallet! What a nice guy!

If YHVH wanted to torture you, he never would have said a single word about it.

Can you talk me through the reasoning there, Steve? I mean, I am pretty sure you cannot, but...

What he wants is to make us love him. The inflicting of intense pain (as from burning) to punish for eternity is just his petty revenge on those who fail to do so.

Yet he provides us with a collection of documents that span over 1600 years, written by 40 different people.

Wow how amazing! Kind of weird how none of those documents mention the trinity, but I guess we all make mistakes.

He explains what he created. Why he created it. He then explained what happened to the human race and why things are the way they are.
He the establishes a nation to be a witness to his reality to the world.
And in this nation, he demonstrates why having external religious practices aren't enough, and why political power isn't enough to ensure the well-being of humanity.

Explain why Jesus had to die. I do not mean to forgive our sins, we know that. explain why God chose to set it up so that it took Jesus dying to do that. As far as I know, the bible is silent on that one. I wonder why.

Throughout this time in history, God makes a series of promises that he will provide a Messiah to be the sacrifice for his sin of the human race and wholly restore us into a right relationship with him.

Right. So again, why did choose to engineer it all so that the sacrifice was necessary?

He then sent his own Son to be that final sacrifice, he pays the full price, and bears the full brunt of God's righteous judgment due sin.

The full price that God had decided would be required. God bear the full brunt of God's righteousness, God paid the price to God that God had decided would need to be paid. Is that right?

And just how righteous is a god who chooses to punish billions by inflicting intense pain (as from burning) to punish them for rejecting him? Does not sound righteous to me.

In this, all he's asking us to do is to believe him.

No, he is commanding us to love him. Get it right. And he is telling us that if we do not he will inflict intense pain (as from burning) to punish us for eternity.

He'll do everything else that is necessary to ensure that we escape the judgment, the kolasis due sin.

No he will not. He can forgive anyone of anything. He is God. He chooses not to.

He chooses to withhold it to those who fail to love him, so he has an excuse to inflict intense pain (as from burning) to punish them for eternity.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Apparently I am just too stupid to do that. Guess that is how God made me, right?

 

[SteveB]

torture
noun: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.


I have no idea what you are talking about. Do you?

Sounds like you're not actually paying attention to what I've been explaining to you for the past several posts.

Toompanidzo is the Greek word for torture. It's used in only one location in the bible.
It refers to a passage from Hebrews 11, in which followers of YHVH were tortured by their oppressors who hated YHVH and the truth. Those YHVH believers did not recant their beliefs, and received eternal life.

Kolasis is the Greek word for punishment, which is used in Matthew 25:46.

You keep whining about you choosing to spend your eternity in the lake of fire being toompanidzo, when the Greek says kolasis.
Furthermore, the only way you'll be toompanidzo in the lake of fire is because you are toompanidzo yourself for being a fool because you rejected Jesus.

Firstly, why do you insist on using transliterated Greek?

Because I'm thinking that you're actually as intelligent as you claim to be.
If I'm mistaken, then please say so.

Do you imagine it makes you look clever?

Nope. I'm assuming that you are as intelligent as you claim to be.

Or you argument any more convincing?

Nope. I'm assuming that you are as intelligent as you claim to be.

You are wrong on both counts.

Really? You're actually telling me that you're really an idiot?

Secondly, I do not want to experience either torture or punishment. That is just your own - somewhat disturbing - fantasy.

Nope. No fantasy on my part.
I wouldn't be talking about it if they bible didn't discuss it first.

Furthermore, according to the bible, by refusing to follow Jesus, you actually do want to spend your eternity in the lake of fire.

So you think it is clever to believe something I do not think it true, and to love an entity that inflicts intense pain (as from burning) on billions for eternity to punish them?

Nope. No cleverisms. I'm just assuming that you're as intelligent as you claim to be.
Your belief/unbelief is utterly irrelevant.
The only thing that matters is if you want to gain the benefits of knowing God, through Jesus Christ.
Believe Jesus and YHVH will give you eternal life, eternal joy, eternal peace, eternal comfort and happiness.

Keep going as you are right now, do nothing, believe nothing, and while you may indeed have an absolutely fantastic life until you die, immediately after you die, you will be in hell. There you will wait until the judgment.
So.... if you're really as intelligent as you claim to be, then you're going to have to work through your unbelief and decide for yourself what you want.

Does it sound any better if I omit the word "torture"? I do not think so. I think punishing billions for the supposed sin of rejecting you, and do so by inflicting intense pain (as from burning) to punish for eternity, is absolutely abhorrent.

You can do whatever you want!
It's your eternity.
Believing lies won't help you. It will guarantee that you perish.

Apparently I am just too stupid to do that. Guess that is how God made me, right?

I didn't guess.
I asked.
He answered.
So, instead of trying to guess, ask him!

Right, like a mugger gives his victim a way to escape; just hand over that wallet! What a nice guy!

Believing lies only guarantees that you will perish.

Can you talk me through the reasoning there, Steve? I mean, I am pretty sure you cannot, but...

Well, since you obviously believe you know better, why should I?
This isn't an argument.
It's an invitation to know YHVH and Jesus.

What he wants is to make us love him. The inflicting of intense pain (as from burning) to punish for eternity is just his petty revenge on those who fail to do so.

Proof you believe you know everything!
Hope you're happy with your beliefs.

Wow how amazing! Kind of weird how none of those documents mention the trinity, but I guess we all make mistakes.

Sounds like you don't actually know how to think very well.
Let me know when you actually make acquaintance with YHVH and Jesus.
Any further attempts to explain it to you will result in you going insane.
Simply put, the trinity is a family matter.

Explain why Jesus had to die. I do not mean to forgive our sins, we know that. explain why God chose to set it up so that it took Jesus dying to do that. As far as I know, the bible is silent on that one. I wonder why.

Nope. It's quite clear.
It's actually stated rather nicely in Isaiah 53.

Isa 53:10-12 WEB 10 Yet it pleased Yahweh to bruise him. He has caused him to suffer. When you make his soul an offering for sin, he will see his offspring. He will prolong his days and Yahweh’s pleasure will prosper in his hand. 11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light and be satisfied. My righteous servant will justify many by the knowledge of himself; and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion with the great. He will divide the plunder with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was counted with the transgressors; yet he bore the sins of many and made intercession for the transgressors.

Right. So again, why did choose to engineer it all so that the sacrifice was necessary?

The nature of love, righteousness, mercy, sin and justice.

The full price that God had decided would be required. God bear the full brunt of God's righteousness, God paid the price to God that God had decided would need to be paid. Is that right?

And?
If I injured your dad, would your great grandfather forgive me and your dad take that as acceptable?
If I injured God, only God has the authority to forgive me.
In like manner, only your dad has the right to forgive me for my injuring him.

So, yeah.... and?

And just how righteous is a god who chooses to punish billions by inflicting intense pain (as from burning) to punish them for rejecting him? Does not sound righteous to me.

Of course not.
You don't want to endure the consequences for your choices and actions.
I've yet to meet a single criminal who actually wants to be punished for their crimes.
This is why they become murderers. They want to cover their crimes so they can get away with it.

No, he is commanding us to love him. Get it right. And he is telling us that if we do not he will inflict intense pain (as from burning) to punish us for eternity.

You're the only one who is having a problem here.

He's not inflicting the pain.
He created us to live with him, so if we live separated from him, pain is the result of separation from God.
Here's an article about pain.

How We Feel Pain - The National Vulvodynia Association

Pain is a complex physiological process. A pain message is transmitted to the brain by specialized nerve cells known as nociceptors, or pain receptors (pictured in the circle to the right). When pain receptors are stimulated by temperature, pressure or chemicals, they release neurotransmitters...

www.nva.org

I encourage you to learn about the nature of pain.
By separating ourselves from God, we inflict pain on ourselves.
It's actually the worst possible injury we can inflict on ourselves.

Ever fall in love with someone, only to have them reject you after having spent a long time with them?
How painful was that?
Did that person inflict the pain on you?
How about you rejecting them? Did you inflict pain on them?

Isn't the separation from each other the cause of the pain? An emotional injury caused the pain.

How Emotional Pain Addiction Causes Physical Issues

Emotional pain can be as intense as physical pain. Find out what the term means, how it relates to physical pain, and what you can do to cope with the stress.

www.verywellmind.com

 

[SteveB]

No he will not. He can forgive anyone of anything. He is God. He chooses not to.

If you don't want to spend your eternity with him, you're going to suffer the consequences of your sin.
Jesus made a rather curious statement that has made many of us think that the only sin that cannot be forgiven is the sin of unbelief.


Joh 16:7-11 WEB
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I don’t go away, the Counselor won’t come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he has come, he will convict the world about sin, about righteousness, and about judgment; 9 about sin, because they don’t believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to my Father, and you won’t see me any more; 11 about judgment, because the prince of this world has been judged.

We read elsewhere that the only sin that cannot be forgiven is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

In the context specific to the statement, this is saying that the work of God is the work of satan.

Due to a number of factors in the bible, it's believed among many of us that to not believe in Jesus, you will suffer the full effect of your sin, and cannot be forgiven.

Joh 3:36 WEB One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won’t see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

Rom 2:4-16 WEB 4 Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath, revelation, and of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will pay back to everyone according to their works:” 7 to those who by perseverance in well-doing seek for glory, honor, and incorruptibility, eternal life; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and don’t obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, will be wrath, indignation, 9 oppression, and anguish on every soul of man who does evil, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 10 But glory, honor, and peace go to every man who does good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without the law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it isn’t the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified 14 (for when Gentiles who don’t have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my Good News, by Jesus Christ.

He chooses to withhold it to those who fail to love him, so he has an excuse to inflict intense pain (as from burning) to punish them for eternity.

Nope.

You choose to exclude yourself from knowing God and enjoying his love for you.

We read that God rejects the proud and gives grace to the humble.

He's given Jesus because he explicitly wants to give you grace. He gave his only begotten son that whosoever would believe him will not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[Lucian]

Firstly, why do you insist on using transliterated Greek? Do you imagine it makes you look clever? Or you argument any more convincing? You are wrong on both counts.

It’s unlikely to do either, given the repeated misspellings and conflation of nouns with verbs. It must be catching…

 

[The Pixie]

torture
noun: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.

Sounds like you're not actually paying attention to what I've been explaining to you for the past several posts.

Because you are WRONG. Torture and punishment are not mutually exclusive. The definition of punishment proves that.

The fact that you continue to cling to this pretence shows just how ridiculous your position is.

You keep whining about you choosing to spend your eternity in the lake of fire being toompanidzo, when the Greek says kolasis.
Furthermore, the only way you'll be toompanidzo in the lake of fire is because you are toompanidzo yourself for being a fool because you rejected Jesus.

And still you want to pretend I am choosing the "excruciating pain and agony and anguish" for eternity.

Again, the fact that you continue to cling to this pretence shows just how ridiculous your position is.

He's not inflicting the pain.

Yes he is. Mat 25 clearly state God will send people to the lake of fire. It is God's choice, not his victims. It is how God is choosing to punish them.

Again, the fact that you continue to cling to this pretence shows just how ridiculous your position is.

He created us to live with him, so if we live separated from him, pain is the result of separation from God.
Here's an article about pain.

How We Feel Pain - The National Vulvodynia Association

Pain is a complex physiological process. A pain message is transmitted to the brain by specialized nerve cells known as nociceptors, or pain receptors (pictured in the circle to the right). When pain receptors are stimulated by temperature, pressure or chemicals, they release neurotransmitters...

www.nva.org

I encourage you to learn about the nature of pain.
By separating ourselves from God, we inflict pain on ourselves.
It's actually the worst possible injury we can inflict on ourselves.

So you start by erroneously saying it cannot be torture because it is punishment, but by the end of your post, you are pretending it is not punishment!

Again, the fact that you continue to cling to this pretence shows just how ridiculous your position is.

 

[SteveB]

torture
noun: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.


Because you are WRONG. Torture and punishment are not mutually exclusive. The definition of punishment proves that.

The fact that you continue to cling to this pretence shows just how ridiculous your position is.


And still you want to pretend I am choosing the "excruciating pain and agony and anguish" for eternity.

Again, the fact that you continue to cling to this pretence shows just how ridiculous your position is.


Yes he is. Mat 25 clearly state God will send people to the lake of fire. It is God's choice, not his victims. It is how God is choosing to punish them.

Again, the fact that you continue to cling to this pretence shows just how ridiculous your position is.


So you start by erroneously saying it cannot be torture because it is punishment, but by the end of your post, you are pretending it is not punishment!

Again, the fact that you continue to cling to this pretence shows just how ridiculous your position is.

If you're not willing to consider that you're wrong, then you'll get exactly what you're afraid of.

It is written,

The fear of the wicked will come on him. And the desire of the righteous shall be granted.

Pro 10:24 WEB What the wicked fear will overtake them, but the desire of the righteous will be granted.

You are literally bringing your own destruction on yourself.

Turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ and you will be made righteous with God.

 

[The Pixie]

torture
noun: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.

If you're not willing to consider that you're wrong, then you'll get exactly what you're afraid of.

It is written,

The fear of the wicked will come on him. And the desire of the righteous shall be granted.

Pro 10:24 WEB What the wicked fear will overtake them, but the desire of the righteous will be granted.

You are literally bringing your own destruction on yourself.

Turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ and you will be made righteous with God.

See, this is the problem Christians have.

Ultimately, it is only the threat of God inflicting intense pain (as from burning) to punish for eternity those who reject him that Christians can wield in their crusade to get more converts, as we see in this post.

And yet that threat is a tacit admission that God is an evil monster who is right not inflicting intense pain (as from burning) to punish on billions of people, just because they choose to exercise their basic human right to freedom of speech.

I will ask again, how can you imagine I could love such a being? How can you love such a being?

 

[Whatsisface]

And yet that threat is a tacit admission that God is an evil monster who is right not inflicting intense pain (as from burning) to punish on billions of people, just because they choose to exercise their basic human right to freedom of speech.

I will ask again, how can you imagine I could love such a being? How can you love such a being?

That the universe is set up as described is insane.

 

[SteveB]

torture
noun: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.


See, this is the problem Christians have.

Ultimately, it is only the threat of God inflicting intense pain (as from burning) to punish for eternity those who reject him that Christians can wield in their crusade to get more converts, as we see in this post.

And yet that threat is a tacit admission that God is an evil monster who is right not inflicting intense pain (as from burning) to punish on billions of people, just because they choose to exercise their basic human right to freedom of speech.

I will ask again, how can you imagine I could love such a being? How can you love such a being?

It's your eternity.
If you're not going to care now, I guarantee that you are the only one who will be torturing yourself in eternity...

FOR an entire eternity. Eternity is infinite eons.

Scripture doesn’t limit its reasons against sin to “just because it’s wrong.” It also includes “because it’s stupid” since sin’s consequences are so severe. “For the simple are killed by their turning away, and the complacency of fools destroys them; but whoever listens to me will dwell secure and will be at ease, without dread of disaster” (Proverbs 1:32-33, ESV).

Jesus thought enough about you that he died, and then rose again to save you from experiencing exactly what you fear/dread.

Your refusal to follow Jesus guarantees exactly what you continue to complain about.

Jesus is the only one who has the power to save you from experiencing the consequences of your sin.

Jesus is the only one who has exactly what you need to do what he's saying matters.

As it's written,

Luk 7:47 WEB Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But one to whom little is forgiven, loves little.”

We who are forgiven much, love much.

It's the nature of forgiveness and the effect of having so great a debt released by God.

Furthermore, the nature of Loving God is that as a result of his loving us, we love him, and express our love by keeping his teachings.

1Jn 4:10 WEB In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.

Joh 14:15-24 WEB 15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world can’t receive, for it doesn’t see him and doesn’t know him. You know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans. I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world will see me no more; but you will see me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. 21 One who has my commandments and keeps them, that person is one who loves me. One who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him, and will reveal myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, what has happened that you are about to reveal yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who doesn’t love me doesn’t keep my words. The word which you hear isn’t mine, but the Father’s who sent me.

God's Love for us is demonstrated by giving us his Son.
Our response is gratitude, and in keeping his teachings.

It's a true statement,

No man is a fool to give up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

Jesus said, what value is it if you gain the whole world and lose your soul?

Let's take it farther.
Have you heard about the asteroid, 16 Psyche?

A Bizarre Trillion-Dollar Asteroid Worth More Than Our Planet Is Now Aligned With The Earth And Sun

NASA and SpaceX want to send a spacecraft to Asteroid 16 Psyche in 2022.

www.forbes.com

Imagine being able to get that into your bank account. It's said that if we could mine it, everyone on earth would become a trillionaire.
Of what value would it be if you got the whole thing for yourself and then died a month later?

Riches don't have any power to deliver us from death. God's economy isn't man made wealth.
Jesus said, in response to people who love money- what you place great value on is an abomination to God.


You can continue in your own bias and preconceptions. And you'll get exactly what you claim to dread.

Or, you can turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ. He will give you eternal life. And even the poorest people in God's Kingdom are infinitely wealthier than the richest on earth, in human kingdoms/realms.

 

[The Pixie]

It's your eternity.
If you're not going to care now, I guarantee that you are the only one who will be torturing yourself in eternity...
...

The fact that you have to delude yourself like this shows us all what a load of nonsense Christianity is.

You really have to pretend unbelievers will be punishing themselves, despite Mat 25 clearly saying it is God sending them to the lake of fire, because you know it makes no sense.

 

[SteveB]

The fact that you have to delude yourself like this shows us all what a load of nonsense Christianity is.

You really have to pretend unbelievers will be punishing themselves, despite Mat 25 clearly saying it is God sending them to the lake of fire, because you know it makes no sense.

You're the only one who is pretending here.

You want toompanidzo to be kolasis, so you keep throwing temper tantrums and then whine about it.

So, the torture you want will be your own regret which will eat you alive.

If you don't like it then turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

............. shows us all what a load of nonsense Christianity is.

What a stupendously ignorant comment.

 

[The Pixie]

torture
noun: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.

You're the only one who is pretending here.

You want toompanidzo to be kolasis, so you keep throwing temper tantrums and then whine about it.

You I do not. I have been adamant that I am NOT saying punishment is the same as torture. You and stiggy have been obliged to pretend I am saying they are the same thing because you are so hopeless wrong here. It is just make-believe.

What I am saying is that there is overlap between torture and punishment. There are some instances when punishment is also torture. The fact that the dictionary definition of torture uses the word punishment proves that that is true. You and stiggy have been obliged to pretend they are mutually exclusive because you are so hopeless wrong here. It is just make-believe.

So, the torture you want will be your own regret which will eat you alive.

I do not want torture. Again, I have pointed this out numerous times. You have been obliged to pretend I want to be torured because you are so hopeless wrong here. It is just make-believe.

If you don't like it then turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ.

Why would I believe you on this when your posts are full of make-believe, Steve?