A tale of two statements

Oh, your point is eternally clear.
You think that your ignoring the cross of Jesus is a justifiable excuse.
My point is obviously not eternally clear to you.
A justifiable excuse for what?

Which is exactly what Jesus does for those who believe him.
He is after all the door to God.
Exactly as stated in the bible.
I believed him and he didn't do it for me.

Then don't.
I think everyone who actually wants to perish should be able to do what they want. Even though they'll rue the day they realize they were wrong.
Jesus did after all say...
If anyone WANTS to be my follower must deny themselves, pick up their cross and follow him.
As the old joke goes....
Yagottahavawantu!
If you don't want to spend your eternity in paradise, then you're not going to follow Jesus.
So I should just keep believing in the Bible regardless of having no justification for doing so?

Jesus has been doing exactly what he says he will for millennia.
That is not my experience.

Not if you actually engage him on his terms.
Did it ever occur to you that you have previously decided that you know better and don't actually want to do what Jesus said?
Did it ever occur to you that I hadn't decided that? That I did come to Jesus on his terms?
No of course not.

What do you think "pick up your cross and deny yourself daily" means?
It means that you don't try to figure it out for yourself.
YHVH was quite clear about this.
Try to figure what out? Life?

Pro 3:5-8 WEB 5 Trust in Yahweh with all your heart, and don’t lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. 7 Don’t be wise in your own eyes. Fear Yahweh, and depart from evil. 8 It will be health to your body, and nourishment to your bones.

He tells us that we have to trust him, and not lean on our own understanding.
It's like the IFR of piloting.

We absolutely cannot rely on our own senses, and perceptions. Flying in conditions where IFR is the only way to get to your destination, alive, is exactly like trusting Jesus to save us and guide us through this life and make certain that we get to heaven when we die.
We always lean on our own understanding? When you read the Bible you lean on our own understanding of what it means.
Or do you just blindly rely upon someone else to tell you what it means?

What is the IFR I should be relying upon?

It doesn't work according to your perspective.
You're leaning on your own bias and preconceptions.
Jesus said that unless we deny ourselves and pick up our cross, we CANNOT be his student/apprentice/followers!
As long as you continue to lean on your own understanding, you'll miss it.
It's an IFR flight!
Whose perspective should I rely on?
What does it mean to deny ourselves?
I have to lean upon my own understanding. That is the only understanding I have.
Or am I to blindly follow what someone else tells me?

That's YOUR opinion.
YHVH demonstrated himself real and knowable.
Exactly as the bible says he would.
My belief is based entirely on what YHVH has explicitly stated and then demonstrated.
It's this way for everyone who comes to him on his terms.
That is not my experience. YHVH has not demonstrated himself as real and knowable to me.

And YHVH demonstrated himself knowable and real to me.
So, if you don't actually want to know, then why are you on this forum arguing about what you didn't experience?
Seems like you have a cognitive dissonance issue.

You keep making the claim that I don't actually want to know.
YHVH never demonstrated himself knowable and real to me.

Do what Jesus said.
Not what you THINK he said, but what he actually said!
Jesus said to believe. I did. Should I have expected some response from God or should I have just kept believing regardless?
Eventually I saw the promise of heaven as no more than the promise of a present from Santa to the good little boys and girls.

That's your problem.
You are willing to accept as fact what you want to be true because you are willing to take your inexperience as you want.
Not a problem at all. I accept as fact what experience tells me is fact or what I see as a logically extension of that experience.

That's not what I read in your posts.

What you read is often a long way from what is written.
Then I'd say that you have a twisted and corrupt view of the True and Living God.
That is your opinion.
 
Did it ever occur to you that I hadn't decided that? That I did come to Jesus on his terms?
No of course not.
No, because it is simply not conceivable that one can go to Jesus on his terms, and not find him.

The Ignore button is right there... best decision I ever made 😁
 
Correct. You were not given any insight into the list of people I care for.

Nor did I say or imply I did. The people you care for are not "christ punks," right? They are exempt. Why? Because you care for them, right? If you didn't exist, they'd be "christ punks" right? Because you are the center of the universe, right?

No, Steve does not have the capacity to bully me personally, and you know that

No, I don't. I can only go by how you are acting the victim.

- so your offer is just rhetorically stupid. And no, I will not lighten up on this vicious message of his that he only imagines he has some supernatural warrant to inflict on people. Short of physical violence, thinking you possess the right to engage in mental coercion of the vulnerable using this brand of supernatural fear over one's personal destiny is as dangerous and harmful as beliefs and actions come. It is no trivial matter what Steve is engaging in.

Yeah, right. Because most people are not as strong as you showed yourself to be by valiantly escaping the "christ punks" of the world. And now you fight the good fight against these "christ punks," right? How? Why, by calling them "christ punks," how else?
 
Nor did I say or imply I did. The people you care for are not "christ punks," right?
Correct.
They are exempt. Why?
Because they do not engage in what christ punks do.
Because you care for them, right?
No. See above
If you didn't exist, they'd be "christ punks" right?
Not the ones I care for, because they are already vetted as not being christ punks.
Because you are the center of the universe, right?
Mine at least, yeah.
No, I don't. I can only go by how you are acting the victim.
How am I acting the victim by simply confronting this viscous psychological message when it is spewed. That's the opposite of victimhood.
Yeah, right. Because most people are not as strong as you showed yourself to be by valiantly escaping the "christ punks" of the world. And now you fight the good fight against these "christ punks," right?
When I am motivated to do so... yeah. So get your message straight. Did I escape because I was stronger internally than the message or am I a victim? So yes, I like to confront that specific niche of damnation theology christian because they seem the most Neanderthal intellectually, yet so cocksure, and thus deserve the hassle.

How? Why, by calling them "christ punks," how else?
When warranted. Remember it was a comment made directly to me. I get to respond to them based on how I evaluate the message against my values. Sure got your attention for some reason.

Why are you so motivated to butt in? Are you feeling victimized by my language, so much so that you feel the need to address it? So search your own motivations towards outrage and there you will find me too.
 
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Correct.

Because they do not engage in what christ punks do.

Because "christ punks" are mean to you, right?

Not the ones I care for, because they are already vetted as not being christ punks.

So they are not as mean to you as "christ punks," right?

Mine at least, yeah.

You have your own universe?

How am I acting the victim by simply confronting this viscous psychological message when it is spewed?

Oh, so it's a message that is mean to you? Stick and stones AND words can hurt you, right, snowflake?

When I am motivated to do so... yeah. So get your message straight. Did I escape because I was stronger internally than the message or am I a victim?

You're a victim who escaped. Happens all the time.

So yes, I like to confront that specific niche of damnation theology christian because they seem the most Neanderthal intellectually, yet so cocksure, and thus deserve the hassle.

Well, aren't you a heroic knight in flashing armor? Watch out, windmills!

Are you feeling victimized by my language, ...........

Yeah, right! The eloquence of the term "christ punk" has got me scuttling under my bed.
 
Because "christ punks" are mean to you, right?
No, just being motivated by such supernatural ignorance, they end up being harmful in general.
So they are not as mean to you as "christ punks," right?
It doesn't have to be comparatively quantified. They are simply not christ punks.
You have your own universe?
Yes.
Oh, so it's a message that is mean to you? Stick and stones AND words can hurt you, right, snowflake?
It is harmful in general and deserves to be confronted when expressed, like a form of bigotry. Doesn't matter where it is directed... it's mere existence is the problem.
You're a victim who escaped. Happens all the time.
At what point does someone who doesn't buy into it become a victim of it? I mean if you consider confronting and harassing the phone-scam caller as opposed to giving them your credit card being victimized in some small way, then yes. The fact that it has to be addressed at all can be annoying, but such religious bigotry needs to be addressed anyway.
Well, aren't you a heroic knight in flashing armor? Watch out, windmills!
No, just speaking out when necessary.
Yeah, right! The eloquence of the term "christ punk" has got me scuttling under my bed.
Scuttling to you keyboard at least... why? You feel a need to confront something?
 
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No, just being motivated by such supernatural ignorance, they end up being harmful in general.

Yeah, Steve's posts aren't harming you, they're just harmful in general. Do you realize how wimpy you sound?

At what point does someone who doesn't buy into it become a victim of it?

LOL. "OUCH, this guy talking about hell is harming me. Ouch, Ouch." Grow up. You sound like a sissy.
 
My point is obviously not eternally clear to you.
A justifiable excuse for what?
To condemn yourself to an eternity of misery and agony and anguish, in order to give yourself an excuse to avoid culpability before God.

I believed him and he didn't do it for me.
The bible says otherwise.
Let me put it this way.
I believe that you are convinced that you are right.
I'm not saying I don't believe what you're saying.
I'm saying that the bible says you're wrong about what you think happened.
And since the bible is God's Word and the basis from which our eternal state is defined, I'm saying that instead of telling me how/where God failed you, take it up with God.

Jesus was quite clear that in keeping his teachings he will bring his Father, and two of them will come and make their home with you.

Having been married for over 32 years.... I can't think of a better way to know someone than to live under the same roof as them....
It breaks down any and all preconceptions about them.
You see them as they actually are, and they see you as you actually are.

If that's not what you want, then by all means, ignore them.
But if you actually want to know God and Jesus and be known as you really are, and loved by them as you are, come to Jesus.
Not what you thought, but as he has described himself in the bible.

So I should just keep believing in the Bible regardless of having no justification for doing so?
That depends entirely on what you want.
Do you actually want to be known by God and know him?
Jesus said eternal life is knowing God and Jesus.
God says he will give you a heart to know him.

What do you actually want?


That is not my experience.
Sad. It's been the experiences of Jesus followers from the day of pentecost following his resurrection.
Furthermore, it's pretty clear that throughout history, there have been people who have corrupted christianity, to be the doctrines of men, taught as the commandments of God. Jesus noted this, as did Isaiah.
This people draws near me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Teaching as doctrine, the commandments of me, and based their fear of God on false beliefs.
The bible is the basis for biblical christianity. Not church dogmas.
Did it ever occur to you that I hadn't decided that? That I did come to Jesus on his terms?
No of course not.
Actually it did.
Why did you think I've been asking you questions?
I want to know where you got off track.
According to the bible, Jesus did make himself known to you. But somewhere... you got sidetracked and wandered away.
Hebrews 2 talks about this....
Like a small boat tied to the dock, and the rope slowly becomes loose and then falls off the tie. The boat then drifts away, and is gone.
It happens all the time. It's why the issue got immortalized in the bible. A lot of people were doing it.
Thankfully, there's a way back to Jesus.


Try to figure what out? Life?
Partly. Yes.
The rest is trying to figure out the truth on your own.

We always lean on our own understanding? When you read the Bible you lean on our own understanding of what it means.
Or do you just blindly rely upon someone else to tell you what it means?
Nope. It's called praying.
Asking God to make it clear to us, to do what he said he would do on our behalf by seeking him through praying, reading and obeying what the bible says.

What is the IFR I should be relying upon?

In the case of following Jesus, Him and the bible.

Whose perspective should I rely on?
YHVH's.

What does it mean to deny ourselves?
To not use our own ideas, our own problem solving skills, our own thinking.

I have to lean upon my own understanding.
Actually, you don't have to.
We're invited by God to learn how he thinks, and works, and then depend on his understanding.
This is exactly why we're told-
Trust in him with ALL our hearts. Acknowledge him in all our ways.
He promises to lead, direct and guide us.
That is the only understanding I have.
Yep. Which is the problem.
Are you willing to give up what you cannot keep, and while it seems like it's great, is in fact inferior, to gain what you cannot lose, and is infinitely superior?

God is offering you himself, and in doing so, he is offering you everything that is his.

Jesus said that all power and authority in heaven and earth are now his.
By giving yourself to him, he's giving you himself.
The creator of the universe is inviting us to become his adopted children.

As such, we are joint heirs with Jesus.
Considering that Jesus inherits everything, we will inherit whatever he inherits and he will share it with us .



Or am I to blindly follow what someone else tells me?
Nope.
We all only follow Jesus.
We don't follow the followers, nor do we follow the followers of the followers.
We follow Jesus.
I do however have to say I'm amused by this question.
You're already following other people blindly and apparently have no problem whatsoever with doing so.
You do what TV and radio advertisements tell you to do. You spend your money on products and services that advertising tells you to spend it on. You watch TV and movies that you're told to watch. Listen to music others tell you to listen to. You eat at restaurants and food establishments you're told to.
I'd say that you have been blindly following others for years, if not decades now.
So, let me ask you this....
Where are they taking you?
Do you know? Are they just filling your life with entertainment and covering up your end?
Did you choose a career path based on what you were told mattered? Buy a vehicle, based on what you were told would bring you happiness? Maybe chose a spouse based on the opinions of what you should expect in a spouse?
Perhaps you bought a home based on the opinions of others and advertisers?
Live in a place that advertising, and opinions of others said would bring you greater stability and happiness?

Looking at the news from this past weekend, I'm seeing that a really pretty, and desirable area, outside of Buffalo NY was nailed with over 6-1/2' of snow.
While the appearance of the region is really attractive, I'm thinking that the amount of snow in that storm would make some people rethink their reason for living there. Likewise for residents of Florida these past few weeks.
Ian, then Nicole. Even Treeplanter told us the damage to his area.
Caribbean islands, the east coast of Mexico and central America, the north coast of south America.
Earthquakes..... a 5.6 quake in Sumatra leveled entire villages.

All very attractive areas.

After the snowfall in western new York, my wife and I are waiting for this winter's snow fall in our area.
Lake Tahoe has received far more snowfall than the buffalo region. And it's not that uncommon. It's why it's such a popular ski resort.

What do you want for yourself?
You can indeed continue trying to figure it out for yourself, or, you can come to Jesus and he'll guide you through it.


That is not my experience. YHVH has not demonstrated himself as real and knowable to me.
Pity. It's been the standard for the past two millennia for Jesus followers the world over. So, if you actually didn't, then you were never actually a follower of Jesus in the first place.

You keep making the claim that I don't actually want to know.
Because you keep arguing (what comes across to me as a self-justification of your unbelief), instead of simply coming to Jesus, and letting him do what he says he will on your behalf.
 
YHVH never demonstrated himself knowable and real to me.
Then you didn't actually do what Jesus said. You may have done what someone else told you he said, but you missed it.
So, instead of arguing with me about it, what do you actually want?
Do you actually want to know God, or are you content just claiming that you failed to accomplish anything?

Jesus said to believe.
Really? What did he say to believe?
Just believe in belief?
Believe in the sunshine?
What did he say to believe?

And yet here you are telling me that you never experienced him.
That tells me that you didn't actually believe him.
You may indeed have had the appearance of godliness but denied the power thereof.

Should I have expected some response from God or should I have just kept believing regardless?
YHVH says that he will come and make his home with you.
That sounds like something to expect to take place.
As mentioned before... my wife and I have been married for over 32 years now. Living under the same roof as each other brings some serious expectations and experiences. It's an unmistakable thing. There's nothing else like it in the world.

According to the bible, we who follow Jesus are engaged to be married to him. In Ephesians 5, and Revelation 19, we're referred to as the Bride of Christ.
It's something that carries with it an unmistakable sense of connection with, and relationship between us and God/Jesus.
So.... yeah. I'd say that you should indeed be expecting God to show up in pretty powerful, yet primal ways.

Eventually I saw the promise of heaven as no more than the promise of a present from Santa to the good little boys and girls.
Sounds like you missed Jesus.
We're told in 3 distinct locations in the new testament, that God will give us his Holy Spirit as a deposit, a down payment, and a pledge of our inheritance in Christ.
In another place, we're told that if we don't have the Spirit of Christ in us, we are not his.
We're further told in an old testament book that God will give us his Holy Spirit to cause us to keep his ordinances and judgments.
So, that's several places where God has explicitly stated that he will give us his Holy Spirit to work in and through our lives to demonstrate that we are heading to heaven. This doesn't include the numerous other places where God says he will work through our lives to change us, and the world in which we live.
So.... if you didn't experience this, and it was nothing more than some long dead promise of something that would happen in some nondescript future....
You got shanked by some fraud who cheated you out of what God said he would do on your behalf.


Not a problem at all. I accept as fact what experience tells me is fact or what I see as a logically extension of that experience.
I used to accept experience as the final authority.
Then I woke up from surgery and found I was still alive. Then the doctors started telling me that I was a miracle and shouldn't be alive, yet here I was, living, breathing and giving them strange looks because of their wondrous words, and declarations.
Then I returned to the doctor for a follow up appointment and he told me that the experience I was extended beyond a mere gunshot wound. My throat no longer bore the scars, and experienced evidence of a bullet ripping through my throat, changing my life forever.
What my initial experience did was to threaten my life and bring me to the brink of my mortality.
My secondary experience showed me something entirely different, far more than I'd ever imagined.
God stepped into my world and showed me a whole new realm. A realm where death is exchanged for life, despair for hope, discouragement for encouragement, joy for sorrow, emptiness for fulfillment...

God stepped in and showed me himself and told me-- I will take the things you think matter, and give you in exchange what really matters.

It's like a father who asks their child to give up their old raggedy toy, and is offering them a much better toy in exchange, but doesn't show them the toy being offered. They're asking their child to believe them. To trust that they are loved by the parent and their future is of the utmost importance to the parent.



What you read is often a long way from what is written.
And yet I am reading what you're saying.
Consider the following...
If you don't think that what you're writing is being conveyed back to you accurately, then state it differently.

I see what you have stated, and am taking into account what God has said about what you're saying and then responding accordingly.
That is your opinion.
Indeed it is.
Based entirely on what you post, and what God said about your expressly stated thoughts.
 
LoL... just like whatsisface claims, you never even read the links you present - or you just lie about their contents to make it seem like you were somehow supported by it. Nowhere in any of that was some personal experience of Jesus even mentioned as any inspiration to his theology. It was fear of death and damnation instigated from a near miss thunder strike that made him originally join the monastery and then a meditation on God's direct grace over works theology that inspired his reformed theology.
Rather interesting how death works.
For some people it gets them to thinking about what they want for themselves.
You apparently don't want to live, and are content with death stealing your life.

And now the sure-fire, hell-fire, threats from a christ-punk surrounding some goofy theory of an eternity that I'll suffer of which he has no clue.
Jesus knows exactly what's there.
I'm working from what he says.
 
Sounds like you don't possess it.
Actually, it possesses me, and everyone else who follows Jesus.
Exactly as he stated in John 10.

Joh 10:25-30 WEB 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you don’t believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name, these testify about me. 26 But you don’t believe, because you are not of my sheep, as I told you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father who has given them to me is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
 
Ah, you've done it again, linking to an article that doesn't say what you claim it says. Sounds like you don't care about the truth.
Still think you're relevant...

I suppose that's the problem with fragility and egobrittility.

It is written,
Pro 29:1 WEB He who is often rebuked and stiffens his neck will be destroyed suddenly, with no remedy.
 
Still think you're relevant...

I suppose that's the problem with fragility and egobrittility.

It is written,
Pro 29:1 WEB He who is often rebuked and stiffens his neck will be destroyed suddenly, with no remedy.
One reason why no one takes you seriously is because you never properly address what they say. You sidestep the point, then pointlessly preach.
 
Yeah, Steve's posts aren't harming you, they're just harmful in general. Do you realize how wimpy you sound?



LOL. "OUCH, this guy talking about hell is harming me. Ouch, Ouch." Grow up. You sound like a sissy.
LOL... I sound like a sissy? Let's read this shit again, Nancy.... "One can only speculate as to what in your life possessed you to become such a seething, hateful and angrily vicious person to use such a phrase." All I said was christ punk to describe the type of Christian that flits around like a high school punk threatening people with damnation in the name of Christ and your little snowflake ears melt off your mushy little violated head and you take to the keyboard. Wimpy? Yeah, that's rich coming from you, Puss.
 
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Rather interesting how death works.
For some people it gets them to thinking about what they want for themselves.
Yeah. They start thinking they want to live forever - for the party to never end. Can you think of anything more childish and immature?
You apparently don't want to live, and are content with death stealing your life.
I am more concerned and content with the life and effect I leave behind. To go through some genuflect designed to cheat that just to gain some fantasy of eternity is cheap living. That's the difference between maturity and grown ups that still harbor children's dreams and fantasies. Mature people are content with the life they have to live. Grown children just pray and cry and plead and whine for more.
 
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LOL... I sound like a sissy?

Yeah, you make Rip Taylor sound masculine.

Let's read this shit again, Nancy...

Nah, pretending to be that manly Sluggo will not counteract your sissiness.

. "One can only speculate as to what in your life possessed you to become such a seething, hateful and angrily vicious person to use such a phrase."

My sentiments exactly, Lance.


You'll gladly pay me Tuesday for a soy burger today?

Yeah, that's rich coming from you,

Actually, it's cheap. Only $5.95/month, but I bundle the internet with a bunch of other stuff. You should look into it.
 
I am more concerned and content with the life and effect I leave behind.

lol. Do you type stuff like that with a straight face, Craftsman? Why crafted artifact will you leave behind for your legacy? One of those popsicle stick/rubber band guns?
 
To condemn yourself to an eternity of misery and agony and anguish, in order to give yourself an excuse to avoid culpability before God.
If I were seeking a justifiable excuse, I would first need to believe that this culpability before God was a real thing.

The bible says otherwise.
Let me put it this way.
I believe that you are convinced that you are right.
I'm not saying I don't believe what you're saying.
I'm saying that the bible says you're wrong about what you think happened.
And since the bible is God's Word and the basis from which our eternal state is defined, I'm saying that instead of telling me how/where God failed you, take it up with God.
As the Bible doesn't comport with my experience, why should I care what it says?
The Bible is man's word about a God they believe in.
God is not the one telling me that he didn't fail me nor I him. You are.

Jesus was quite clear that in keeping his teachings he will bring his Father, and two of them will come and make their home with you.
So the Bible claims. And again that has not been my experience.

If that's not what you want, then by all means, ignore them.
But if you actually want to know God and Jesus and be known as you really are, and loved by them as you are, come to Jesus.
Not what you thought, but as he has described himself in the bible.
Again you put the burden and the blame for failure upon me. I have done what the Bible claims I needed to.

That depends entirely on what you want.
Do you actually want to be known by God and know him?
Jesus said eternal life is knowing God and Jesus.
God says he will give you a heart to know him.
The Bible says a lot of things. I have yet to hear a good reason why I should believe them.
God obviously hasn't given me a heart to know him.

Sad. It's been the experiences of Jesus followers from the day of pentecost following his resurrection.
Furthermore, it's pretty clear that throughout history, there have been people who have corrupted christianity, to be the doctrines of men, taught as the commandments of God. Jesus noted this, as did Isaiah.
This people draws near me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Teaching as doctrine, the commandments of me, and based their fear of God on false beliefs.
The bible is the basis for biblical christianity. Not church dogmas.
People claim to have experienced a lot of strange and amazing things. Without evidence they are just empty claims.

Actually it did.
Why did you think I've been asking you questions?
I want to know where you got off track.
According to the bible, Jesus did make himself known to you. But somewhere... you got sidetracked and wandered away.
No you continually look to find some failure on my part because you can't accept that the Bible may be wrong.

Nope. It's called praying.
Asking God to make it clear to us, to do what he said he would do on our behalf by seeking him through praying, reading and obeying what the bible says.
Pray as much as you like. It is still ultimately your own understanding of what the Bible says or what people tell you it says.

In the case of following Jesus, Him and the bible.
YHVH's.
I don't have YHVH's perspective. I only have Biblical hearsay.

To not use our own ideas, our own problem solving skills, our own thinking.
The excuse given, by Christians, for the problem of evil is that God wanted us to have free will. He didn't want robots.
Now you are telling me that is exactly what he wants.

Actually, you don't have to.
We're invited by God to learn how he thinks, and works, and then depend on his understanding.
This is exactly why we're told-
Trust in him with ALL our hearts. Acknowledge him in all our ways.
He promises to lead, direct and guide us.
No, we are invited to follow the words in a particular book.
We still need understanding to do that.

Yep. Which is the problem.
Are you willing to give up what you cannot keep, and while it seems like it's great, is in fact inferior, to gain what you cannot lose, and is infinitely superior?
God is offering you himself, and in doing so, he is offering you everything that is his.
Sounds great. Do you have any evidence that this is more than empty claims?

Jesus said that all power and authority in heaven and earth are now his.
By giving yourself to him, he's giving you himself.
The creator of the universe is inviting us to become his adopted children.
Why should I care what Jesus is alleged to have said?
Just more unevidenced biblical claims.

Nope.
We all only follow Jesus.
We don't follow the followers, nor do we follow the followers of the followers.
We follow Jesus.
I do however have to say I'm amused by this question.
You're already following other people blindly and apparently have no problem whatsoever with doing so.
You do what TV and radio advertisements tell you to do. You spend your money on products and services that advertising tells you to spend it on. You watch TV and movies that you're told to watch. Listen to music others tell you to listen to. You eat at restaurants and food establishments you're told to.
I'd say that you have been blindly following others for years, if not decades now.
So, let me ask you this....
Where are they taking you?
Do you know? Are they just filling your life with entertainment and covering up your end?
Did you choose a career path based on what you were told mattered? Buy a vehicle, based on what you were told would bring you happiness? Maybe chose a spouse based on the opinions of what you should expect in a spouse?
Perhaps you bought a home based on the opinions of others and advertisers?
Live in a place that advertising, and opinions of others said would bring you greater stability and happiness?
No, you follow your understanding of the words ascribed to some guy's from 1800+ years ago and the understanding of those who follow those words.

What do you want for yourself?
You can indeed continue trying to figure it out for yourself, or, you can come to Jesus and he'll guide you through it.
Is Jesus going to tell me if I should sell my house or get a new car? Is Jesus going to tell me how to dress and what career I should follow?

Pity. It's been the standard for the past two millennia for Jesus followers the world over. So, if you actually didn't, then you were never actually a follower of Jesus in the first place.
Is that an argument ad populum? People follow all kind of beliefs. Every religion makes similar claims for what they believe.

Because you keep arguing (what comes across to me as a self-justification of your unbelief), instead of simply coming to Jesus, and letting him do what he says he will on your behalf.
What Is see from you is justification for my not experiencing God's making himself known to me, despite what your bible claims.
 
Yeah, you make Rip Taylor sound masculine.



Nah, pretending to be that manly Sluggo will not counteract your sissiness.



My sentiments exactly, Lance.



You'll gladly pay me Tuesday for a soy burger today?



Actually, it's cheap. Only $5.95/month, but I bundle the internet with a bunch of other stuff. You should look into it.
You're just triggered is all. Here it is again... "christ punk!" Now tell us some more about how outraged you are, puss.
 
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