A thread for Ex-Catholics

shnarkle

Well-known member
what 'good works' are necessary for justification?
Any and all good works performed in, with, and through Christ. The new creature formed in, with, and through Christ is created for the explicit purpose of performing good works.
and where does scripture say those works are necessary?
They define the new covenant God makes with his people e.g. Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 11:19;36;26; Heb. 8:9,10 James points out that without works, one's faith is necessarily dead, with works one's faith is necessarily alive. see also Romans 2:13
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
What gave you the idea that I accept the precepts of men?
Nothing at all! Sorry if I gave that impression; it was not my intent.
I would also point out to those who believe that hell is a place of everlasting torment, and must therefore co-exist with the saved in heaven.
I read your statement "hell... must... co-exist with the saved in heaven" to mean that those in hell are close to - or near - those in heaven. Like, hell is "just down the street" from heaven. Hence my reply that co-existence does not imply co-location.

Whew! Have I totally muddied the waters now?
--Rich
 

mica

Well-known member
Nothing at all! Sorry if I gave that impression; it was not my intent.

I read your statement "hell... must... co-exist with the saved in heaven" to mean that those in hell are close to - or near - those in heaven. Like, hell is "just down the street" from heaven. Hence my reply that co-existence does not imply co-location.

Whew! Have I totally muddied the waters now?
--Rich
no, you are not the one muddling the waters.
 

mica

Well-known member
mica said:
what 'good works' are necessary for justification?
shnarkle said: - Any and all good works performed in, with, and through Christ. The new creature formed in, with, and through Christ is created for the explicit purpose of performing good works.

They define the new covenant God makes with his people e.g. Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 11:19;36;26; Heb. 8:9,10 James points out that without works, one's faith is necessarily dead, with works one's faith is necessarily alive. see also Romans 2:13
how does justification happen?

how does one have those good works in/of Him prior to being saved?
 

mica

Well-known member
They aren't our works to begin with. Again, Paul points to this when he says, "not me, but Christ in me"

Just to clarify: It is through faith within Christ alone.

Some people have this idea that it is the faith they place in Christ, when it is the faith of Christ, or Christ's faith alone that saves.
have you had a rebirth experience? if so, please post a short testimony of it. when, where, what happen... just the basics. thx.
 

Maxtar

Active member
Thanks for the link. I thought this was interesting: " a man can 'receive divine grace through Jesus Christ' to perform the works necessary for justification. In other words, Rome teaches that God helps man to do good works and hence to fully satisfy the Law."
And of course you would be wrong. The Law was satisfied by the death and resurrection of Christ, the free gift of salvation to all who call upon Him. Now the scriptures are replete with the teachings that we should do good things as we go through this like. Once done there is "a reward" that awaits us. So which is, just faith that get's us eternal life, or are there other things that the believer is called upon to do in addition to having this faith?
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Nothing at all! Sorry if I gave that impression; it was not my intent.
Your posts clearly don't reflect your intentions then. What was your point then?
I read your statement "hell... must... co-exist with the saved in heaven"
You didn't read my statement then. Read it again.
to mean that those in hell are close to - or near - those in heaven. Like, hell is "just down the street" from heaven. Hence my reply that co-existence does not imply co-location.
Have you ever seen someone possessed with fear, rage, resentment, etc. ? They're basically in hell. I've seen people completely tormented while people right next to them were the epitome of calm serenity. Again, it God can be found in the depths of hell, your ideas have no merit.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
And of course you would be wrong.
And of course this claim adds nothing to the discussion.
The Law was satisfied by the death and resurrection of Christ, the free gift of salvation to all who call upon Him.
Only those who see or know him can call upon him in the first place. There is no free gift to those who have no idea what you're talking about.
Now the scriptures are replete with the teachings that we should do good things as we go through this like. Once done there is "a reward" that awaits us. So which is, just faith that get's us eternal life, or are there other things that the believer is called upon to do in addition to having this faith?
The believer is called upon, or created to do good works.
 

Marcha

Member
The church i grew up in rejected Vatican II and became its own sect. We attended in the 70s -early 80s. They always had a Latin mass. No meat on any Friday. Always confession before communion. If God hadn't spoken to me as a younger child i would not have known God at all in my young years because my church mostly prayed to Mary and saints.
 

balshan

Well-known member
The church i grew up in rejected Vatican II and became its own sect. We attended in the 70s -early 80s. They always had a Latin mass. No meat on any Friday. Always confession before communion. If God hadn't spoken to me as a younger child i would not have known God at all in my young years because my church mostly prayed to Mary and saints.
I understand. But keeping calling out to God, He never lets you down. He hears.
 
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