Abortion compromise

BMS

Well-known member
Your "developing" is correct. An acorn is not an oak tree, it is an acorn. It develops into an oak tree, but it is not itself an oak tree.

I am not pretending either. A placenta develops from the zygote in the same way that a baby does, and a placenta is not a human being. The property of "developing from a zygote" is not sufficient to define a human being.
Developing, correct, the acorn is the oak tree at seed stage just as the foetus is the human being at foetal stage. This is why you are wrong because you deny the reality.
Also my point was the placenta is not the human being which you seem to have agreed to, but you deny the human being at zygote stage is a human being, which is your error.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Complete rubbish. The placenta develops from the zygote. The zygote grows into both the embryo and the placenta.


Both the sperm cell and the egg cell are already alive. There is a lot of discussion to be had about what "begins" might mean here.

You do not get to decide either.
How many placentas are you friends with and how many human beings? The placenta isnt the human being developing.
Sure both the sperm and egg are alive and both are human but neither are a human being, its only when conception occurs can we see the being develop. There is no discussion at all if one recognises the reality.
The discussions are taking place about what you imagine that denies reality. Same as the imaginary transwomen who are men and not transwomen.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Yes, the placenta keeps developing for nine months. For that time it is different from the developing mbryo.


Life has already begun for both. As with all life, it will end at some point in the future. Both can survive for longer than an adult mayfly for instance.
The placenta isnt the human being but the adult is can you tell the diference between a giraffe and a bus?
 

BMS

Well-known member
A zygote is not human, it lacks too many necessary parts; a working brain for example. Once all the necessary parts have developed, then it is human.
We can see the human being develop from zygote through to adult. That is the observable reality that doesnt change just because you dont think so for whatever reason.
We can only discuss what exists, we cant discuss what you imagine
 

rossum

Well-known member
No the argument has always been when does life begin.
Not quite. The argument has been about when human life begins. Both the sperm cell and the egg cell are alive before fertilization, so fertilization is more of a change than a beginning of life.
 

rossum

Well-known member
Also my point was the placenta is not the human being which you seem to have agreed to, but you deny the human being at zygote stage is a human being, which is your error.
The zygote includes the placenta, which develops from the zygote. If, as you say, a zygote is a human being, then that same zygote is just as much a placenta, and hence not a human being. The same zygote cannot both be a human being and simultaneously not be a human being. The presence of the placenta complicates matters.
 

rossum

Well-known member
We can see the human being develop from zygote through to adult.
The child develops into the adult, but the child is not the adult. A child cannot do some things that an adult can. Child and adult are different. Similarly, zygote and human being are different. As I have said before, I look for a working brain in a human being. Absent a working brain, we do not (yet) have a human being.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Not quite. The argument has been about when human life begins. Both the sperm cell and the egg cell are alive before fertilization, so fertilization is more of a change than a beginning of life.
No. Not so. The fertilized egg is when we can see the entity we call the human being, start to develop. So it IS the beggining of life.
 

BMS

Well-known member
The zygote includes the placenta, which develops from the zygote. If, as you say, a zygote is a human being, then that same zygote is just as much a placenta, and hence not a human being. The same zygote cannot both be a human being and simultaneously not be a human being. The presence of the placenta complicates matters.
i say the zygote is the human being because we can see it develop to the embryo to the foetus to the baby to the child etc.
Its not just always the human being but the same specific individual human being. It cant be the same placenta because the placenta is discarded. Its not ''if' I say, its observably what happens.
 

BMS

Well-known member
The child develops into the adult, but the child is not the adult. A child cannot do some things that an adult can. Child and adult are different. Similarly, zygote and human being are different. As I have said before, I look for a working brain in a human being. Absent a working brain, we do not (yet) have a human being.
Nonsense. Child and zygote are terms for the stage of development of the human being. So zygote and human being arent different.

You may look for a working brain in a human being before you consider the human being, but that is your error.
 

Faithoverbelief

Well-known member
The child develops into the adult, but the child is not the adult. A child cannot do some things that an adult can. Child and adult are different. Similarly, zygote and human being are different. As I have said before, I look for a working brain in a human being. Absent a working brain, we do not (yet) have a human being.
What is a working brain? Does a person in a coma have a working brain? What about mentally handicapped? Are you implying that as long as a brain exists it is working?
 

Harry Leggs

Super Member
Not quite. The argument has been about when human life begins.
You don't know? Has that got you stumped?
Both the sperm cell and the egg cell are alive before fertilization, so fertilization is more of a change than a beginning of life.
Take a biology course that covers when life begins in the womb. Fertilization is the beginning of life. Life begins at conception is a biological fact. It is a unique process.
 
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rossum

Well-known member
Take a biology course that covers when life begins in the womb. Fertilization is the beginning of life. Life begins at conception is a biological fact. It is a unique process.
Take a biology course that tells you that the womb is already alive, that egg cells are alive and that sperm cells are alive.

It is not always unique either, since we can have identical twins, or triplets, from a single fertilisation.

You're gonna need a better biology course.
 

Furion

Well-known member
The child develops into the adult, but the child is not the adult. A child cannot do some things that an adult can. Child and adult are different. Similarly, zygote and human being are different. As I have said before, I look for a working brain in a human being. Absent a working brain, we do not (yet) have a human being.
Why do you condemn most liberals to status of vegetable?

Your spurious claims of attainment of human being status hinges on some stranga from the Internet declaring it to be so.

While that plays well in your head I don't see anyone believing you. All it accomplishes is you aborting more babies
 

BMS

Well-known member
Take a biology course that tells you that the womb is already alive, that egg cells are alive and that sperm cells are alive.

It is not always unique either, since we can have identical twins, or triplets, from a single fertilisation.

You're gonna need a better biology course.
No one is disputing that. The reality however is the human being begins life at conception with the union of the alive egg and sperm that you have just mentioned.
 

Nedsk

Well-known member
Why do you condemn most liberals to status of vegetable?

Your spurious claims of attainment of human being status hinges on some stranga from the Internet declaring it to be so.

While that plays well in your head I don't see anyone believing you. All it accomplishes is you aborting more babies
It's the same thing Hitler did. They put arbitrary conditions on what constitutes a human being. From there they think they can then decide who lives and who dies. Remember these people think things are true simply because they believe it. Like being a women.
 
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