Abortion compromise

[rossum]

One has to be able to ageee to differ on opinions but we cant agree to differ on whether the moon is made of cheese or whether life doesnt start at conception.

Sperm and egg are both already alive. If anything, at conception the number of living cells is reduced by one.

You might get identical twins or triplets from a single conception, so "begins" is rather more complex than you appear to think.

 

[Nedsk]

I am sure you did, though the discussion now is more about semantics.

What number was that post?

It's about semantics because of liberals.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

My position is in post #25.

I suspect we will have to agree to differ.

Thsts cool and all but I mentioned my post because you said people on the pro life side weren’t offering a compromise.

 

[BMS]

Sperm and egg are both already alive

We know, we agreed

If anything, at conception the number of living cells is reduced by one.

Still the life of a human life begins at conception.

You might get identical twins or triplets from a single conception,

So human life begins at conception

so "begins" is rather more complex than you appear to think.

so it isnt complex at all, in the slightest, and none of what you have said changes the observable reality that a human being begins life at conception... unless of course you are saying identical twins and triplets arent human beings; are you saying that?

 

[Thistle]

Sperm and egg are both already alive. If anything, at conception the number of living cells is reduced by one.

You might get identical twins or triplets from a single conception, so "begins" is rather more complex than you appear to think.

What do you think the word conception means in this context?

 

[rossum]

What do you think the word conception means in this context?

Combination of sperm and egg to produce a zygote.

A zygote is not yet a human being. It may develop into one (or possibly more) human being(s) and attached placenta(s).

As I have said before, a functioning brain is required for human life, and a zygote does not yet have that.

 

[BMS]

Combination of sperm and egg to produce a zygote.

A zygote is not yet a human being. It may develop into one (or possibly more) human being(s) and attached placenta(s).

As I have said before, a functioning brain is required for human life, and a zygote does not yet have that.

What do you think a zygote is apart from the human being at that stage? Of course it is a human being, we can watch its development through to adult.
As I said before, we can see the human being begins life as a zygote, so we know you are wrong.

So what do you mean when you make that post? What meaning do you put on all those words you used?

 

[rossum]

What do you think a zygote is apart from the human being at that stage?

A zygote is not yet a human being (or beings). It is not yet a placenta either. An acorn is not an oak tree.

Of course it is a human being, we can watch its development through to adult.

The word "development" loses you the argument. Development requires change; if there is no change then there is no development. In this case the zygote develops from not-yet-a-human-being to human being. Not all zygotes make the transition, for example if they fail to implant.

 

[BMS]

A zygote is not yet a human being (or beings).

You see that wasnt the question I asked you. The question I asked you was "What do you think a zygote is apart from the human being at that stage?" If it isnt the human being at that stage what else is it?

The word "development" loses you the argument.

We can see the human being develop from zygote to adult so what do you mean by develop?

Development requires change

Not necessarily, rather development is change.

if there is no change then there is no development

correct, so development is change, right? We can see the human being develop from zygote to adult so what do you mean by develop?

In this case the zygote develops

Again, what is the zygote if not the human being at that stage? What is this zygote creature you are thinking of as opposed to the human being at the zygote stage of development?

BTW the placenta https://www.pregnancybirthbaby.org.au/what-is-the-placenta is crucial to keeping the human being alive. It is an organ attached to the lining of the womb that delivers oxygen and nutrients to the human being. Do you see?

 

[BMS]

Ah rossum has left the forum, only to return and present the same indefensible claims I guess, and be challenged on them once again

 

[rossum]

You see that wasnt the question I asked you. The question I asked you was "What do you think a zygote is apart from the human being at that stage?" If it isnt the human being at that stage what else is it?

It is a zygote, obviously.

We can see the human being develop from zygote to adult so what do you mean by develop?

As I said, it often, but not always, changes/develops from not-yet-a-human-being to human being, or beings and placenta(s).

Again, what is the zygote if not the human being at that stage?

It is a pre-human zygote.

BTW the placenta https://www.pregnancybirthbaby.org.au/what-is-the-placenta is crucial to keeping the human being alive. It is an organ attached to the lining of the womb that delivers oxygen and nutrients to the human being. Do you see?

The placenta develops from the zygote and is not itself a human being.

 

[BMS]

It is a zygote, obviously.

What is the zygote, its the zygote.
Hopeless. We can see the human being develop from zygote to adult. We can see this on scans and film.

As I said, it often, but not always, changes/develops

What do you mean by develop, it develops
We can see the human being develop from zygote to adult. We can see this on scans and film.

from not-yet-a-human-being to human being,

Since we can see the human being develop from zygote to adult, on scans and film we know what you say is not true.

It is a pre-human zygote.

Since we can see the human being develop from zygote to adult, on scans and film we know what you say is not true.

 

[glenlogie]

What is the zygote, its the zygote.
Hopeless. We can see the human being develop from zygote to adult. We can see this on scans and film.

What do you mean by develop, it develops
We can see the human being develop from zygote to adult. We can see this on scans and film.

Since we can see the human being develop from zygote to adult, on scans and film we know what you say is not true.

Since we can see the human being develop from zygote to adult, on scans and film we know what you say is not true.

It is interesting that some people will make this argument, like there is a chance it could turn out to be something else.

 

[rossum]

It is interesting that some people will make this argument, like there is a chance it could turn out to be something else.

It does. It can become nothing, as when it fails to implant. It can become two of more identical siblings. It can also become a placenta. There are different routes by which it may develop.

 

[BMS]

It does. It can become nothing, as when it fails to implant. It can become two of more identical siblings. It can also become a placenta. There are different routes by which it may develop.

What can?

 

[rossum]

We can see the human being develop from zygote to adult. We can see this on scans and film.

It develops from not a human being into a human being. It develops from an entity without a brain into an entity with a brain. human beings have brains.

We can see the human being develop from zygote to adult. We can see this on scans and film.

We can see the placenta develop from zygote to placenta. Hence, according to your argument, the zygote is a placenta.

 

[rossum]

What can?

A zygote. It can develop down different paths.

 

[BMS]

It develops from not a human being into a human being. It develops from an entity without a brain into an entity with a brain. human beings have brains.

we can see it is the same entity so your support for abortion is based on not being able to see reality.

 

[BMS]

A zygote. It can develop down different paths.

And its the human being at its first stage of development. Also the presence of a Y chromosome will mean that the human being is male and will start developing as male at around 6-8 weeks. The unique DNA is there rossum.

 

[BMS]

We can see the placenta develop from zygote to placenta. Hence, according to your argument, the zygote is a placenta.

No, the placenta is an organ, and develops alongside the human being at zygote stage. I think, like imagining identifying as a woman is the same as a woman, you are imagining the placenta organ is a human being. Both views are detached from observable reality an rational evidence based observation