Abortion: Genocide in the Womb

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Caroljeen

Well-known member
Eightcrackers said:
If I send you a piece of paper with the date and time of my wedding and tell you that I want you to be there, that is an invitation to my wedding.

If I don't send you such a paper, but nor do I send you a piece of paper telling you not to come, that is not an invitation to my wedding.
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If I have unprotected sex then I am asking a baby to show up in my womb at that very moment.

If I have protected sex then I am saying "I don't want you to show up in my womb today".
 
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Eightcrackers

Well-known member
Caroljeen said:
If I have unprotected sex then I am asking a baby to show up in my womb at that very moment.
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No - possible consequences are not invited consequences.

You are saying that, if I don't send "stay away" letters to people, these people are invited to my wedding.
Caroljeen said:
If I have protected sex then I am saying "I don't want you to show up in my womb today".
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Correct - this is the sending of "stay away" letters.
 
C

Caroljeen

Well-known member
Eightcrackers said:
No - possible consequences are not invited consequences.

You are saying that, if I don't send "stay away" letters to people, these people are invited to my wedding.
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I'm not sending an invite. The invite is inherent in the act of having unprotected sex. This is where your analogy fails.
Eightcrackers said:
Correct - this is the sending of "stay away" letters.
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By protecting myself from an unwanted pregnancy, I am not inviting a baby to be conceived while having sex. I have control.
 
Temujin

Temujin

Well-known member
Caroljeen said:
I find abortions appalling because it is the death of a human person...that is the reason it can be compared to the Holocaust (not Hitler). It is not simply a matter of degree whether it is all or just the deaths of some unborn babies. It is not merely a "large number" but a very significant number of abortions yearly. If you saw all of the bodies of those 46 million babies aborted this year, would not the Holocaust come to your mind at all especially if they were all disposed of in an incinerator?

To keep this in perspective, this is from the first few sentences in the article in the OP, "Every second 87.5 babies are being aborted somewhere in this world. Annually, that adds up to more than 46 million babies who never see the light of day. In the United States 2.3 babies are aborted every minute, totaling 1.2 million per year. Nearly 50 million babies have been aborted in the United States since 1973. Currently, more than one out of every five babies is aborted in this country.1"
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I would share with you a sincere desire to reduce the number of abortions everywhere. Some countries have managed to do so. The main weapons seem to be improved education, easy and free access to healthcare and contraception, and a removal of stigma. Most abortions occur amongst the poor. How much does it cost to have a baby in the US? Just the prenatal care and the delivery ? Never mind the on costs of parenting. If you want to reduce abortions, simply banning them is the wrong way to go.
 
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BMS

Well-known member
Eightcrackers said:
No.
If you have sex with the goal of becoming pregnant, that is an invitation.

Leaving one's car unlocked is not an invitation for a stranger to use it.
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No, conception isnt controlled and cant be controlled by intension. Thats nonsense
 
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BMS

Well-known member
Eightcrackers said:
Then you, like me, are arguing that unwillingly-pregnant women did not intend to be pregnant.

Same difference.
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Conception isnt controlled by intent either, unprotected sexual intercourse may result in conception whatever the intend of the intimacy
 
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Caroljeen

Well-known member
Temujin said:
I would share with you a sincere desire to reduce the number of abortions everywhere. Some countries have managed to do so. The main weapons seem to be improved education, easy and free access to healthcare and contraception, and a removal of stigma. Most abortions occur amongst the poor. How much does it cost to have a baby in the US? Just the prenatal care and the delivery ? Never mind the on costs of parenting. If you want to reduce abortions, simply banning them is the wrong way to go.
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I agree that access to healthcare, education, and contraception are important and should be free. These things should not be provided by those who make a living aborting the unborn. If a woman doesn't want to be a parent, then there are many ways of preventing pregnancy. She needs to take responsibility for her actions. In this day and age, they are without excuse in most countries.
 
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Eightcrackers

Well-known member
BMS said:
Conception isnt controlled by intent either, unprotected sexual intercourse may result in conception whatever the intend of the intimacy
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I agree - it may.

But invitation is controlled by intent. Indeed, it is intent.
If you to intend to get pregnant, you didn't invite it.
 
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Eightcrackers

Well-known member
Caroljeen said:
I agree that access to healthcare, education, and contraception are important and should be free. These things should not be provided by those who make a living aborting the unborn. If a woman doesn't want to be a parent, then there are many ways of preventing pregnancy. She needs to take responsibility for her actions.
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Isn't an abortion a way of taking responsibility?

Taking it upon one's self to not put a possibly-unwanted person into the world?
 
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Eightcrackers

Well-known member
Caroljeen said:
It is explicit when the woman participates in unprotected sex.
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No, it isn't.
No more than my "no bans" wedding is an explicit invitation to all.
Caroljeen said:
whatever that means,
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Invitation: "I'm doing this thing, and I want you here.
Prevention: "I'm doing this thing, and I don't want you here."

Unprotected sex without the intent of getting pregnant is neither inviting nor preventing it.
 
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BMS

Well-known member
Eightcrackers said:
No, it isn't.
No more than my "no bans" wedding is an explicit invitation to all.

Invitation: "I'm doing this thing, and I want you here.
Prevention: "I'm doing this thing, and I don't want you here."

Unprotected sex without the intent of getting pregnant is neither inviting nor preventing it.
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Waffle. Intent plays no part in whether unprotected sexual intercourse results in conception or not.
 
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