Abortion is murder in a non-legal sense... so what?

BMS

Well-known member
The reason it is illegal is because a majority of those in society who determine the law, think or is immoral. You seem to have the crazy idea that no objective morality means no morality at all. You also donvt have a coherent argument. You say :
1.If there is no objective morality, there is nothing to stop women being raped.
2.Women are being raped.
3. Therefore there is an objective morality.

Perhaps you find it difficult to understand, but there are three things going on here. One is the concept that it is wrong to rape women, which most people agree with. That is the moral position, though there is nothing to show that it is an objective moral position. Secondly there is the law, that says that if you rape women, you will suffer these consequences. Thirdly there is the decision made by some people to ignore the morality, and the law, and rape women any way. That is the real world. That is what really happens. Your pathetic argument doesn't interact with the real world at any point.
You seem to be implying morality is decided by a majority. Obviously not if the policies of the Nazi and Marxist regimes were supported by the majority.

Until you can clarify what you mean by 'women' we cant get your point about rape of women
 

BMS

Well-known member
The reason it is illegal is because a majority of those in society who determine the law, think or is immoral. You seem to have the crazy idea that no objective morality means no morality at all. You also donvt have a coherent argument. You say :
1.If there is no objective morality, there is nothing to stop women being raped.
2.Women are being raped.
3. Therefore there is an objective morality.

Perhaps you find it difficult to understand, but there are three things going on here. One is the concept that it is wrong to rape women, which most people agree with. That is the moral position, though there is nothing to show that it is an objective moral position. Secondly there is the law, that says that if you rape women, you will suffer these consequences. Thirdly there is the decision made by some people to ignore the morality, and the law, and rape women any way. That is the real world. That is what really happens. Your pathetic argument doesn't interact with the real world at any point.
You know your person argument yeah? You say the foetus isnt a person so it doesnt have the right to life. Well the foetus does have a right to life after 11 weeks old in most countries and over 24 weeks old in our country.
So your whole position is badly mistaken and faulty
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Then why complain that it's legal under "man's law"?

Why not just let what happens happen, and your god can sort it all out "when it's time"?
SO I shouldn't complain about my Government making the murder of its people LEGAL??? when you've set a precident, what's to prevent them from expanding on it. Euthanasia of those who are old and in the way will probably be next -

Seems Germany went down this road not too long ago.

But you are right in one respect - i.e. NOBODY GETS AWAY WITH ANYTHING in the long run. There's a "record' of you, and you'll be judged out of it - "when its time". MY record was nailed to the cross with Jesus.
 
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Eightcrackers

Well-known member
SO I shouldn't complain about my Government making the murder of its people LEGAL???
If you think your god is going to sort it out in the end, why not let him?

They'll get theirs, right?
Euthanasia of those who are old and in the way will probably be next
Slippery slope fallacy.

"If we let men marry men, we'll have men marrying dogs next!"

(By the way, I am in favour of assisted dying, but not involuntary euthanasia.)
But you are right in one respect - i.e. NOBODY GETS AWAY WITH ANYTHING in the long run. There's a "record' of you, and you'll be judged out of it - "when its time"
Yeah, yeah.
MY record was nailed to the cross with Jesus.
So you will get away with it, then.
You will not face the consequences of your sins, because somebody else did it for you.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
I love how ticked off you get. Society decides it's illegal something greater than a pion like you decided it's immoral. It's know its immoral and objectively so because no one who is physically or mentally healthy wants to be raped, murdered lied to or stolen from. It's amazing how twisted leftist wing nuts are. The LAST thing anyone needs is a dimwit leftist deciding for them what their rights are.
Morality is personal.. You don't tell me what my morals should be, nor do I tell you. Society decides rights and society decides laws. No need for any one or anything else. No need for, or evidence of objective morality or a God to decree it.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Right.
Somebody else tells him.
Correct. For those without the moral backbone to consider their own moral position, there's always the safety net of what somebody else declares the Bible says. Synthetic moral fibre for those without a moral compass of their own.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
Morality is personal.. You don't tell me what my morals should be, nor do I tell you. Society decides rights and society decides laws. No need for any one or anything else. No need for, or evidence of objective morality or a God to decree it.
No it's not personal because if it is then you have no just basis upon which decide rights and laws are established. No one sought my agreement so since morals are personal society has no authority.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
No it's not personal because if it is then you have no just basis upon which decide rights and laws are established. No one sought my agreement so since morals are personal society has no authority.
Society has legal authority. Morals isn't telling other people what to do. That's what laws are for. Morals tell you yourself what to do. You are confused because your morals are secondhand anyway, do you can't tell the difference.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
Society has legal authority. Morals isn't telling other people what to do. That's what laws are for. Morals tell you yourself what to do. You are confused because your morals are secondhand anyway, do you can't tell the difference.
Yes legal authority not moral authority. This is precisely why, THANK GOD, we had to break away from you evil wingnuts. Sadly your cancer is metastisized in this once great country.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Yes legal authority not moral authority. This is precisely why, THANK GOD, we had to break away from you evil wingnuts. Sadly your cancer is metastisized in this once great country.
Moral authority cuts no mustard. Moral authority never punished anyone. Moral authority is a comfort blanket for those who lack any actual authority.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
Moral authority cuts no mustard. Moral authority never punished anyone. Moral authority is a comfort blanket for those who lack any actual authority.
But we had the moral authority to tell your goergie porgie to shove his legal authority. Again too many Americans now think like evil Brit wing nuts.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
So, you will not face the consequences of your sin...

I thought you said that nobody will get away with it.
If you don't face the consequences, that's called "getting away with it."
Chuckle!! The issue is, of course that EVERYBODY sins - some in a more majestic fashion than others. And SOME sins have a more serious social effect than others. Stealing a loaf of bread is quite different in its social impact/significance than shooting 19 children and two teachers.

However ALL SIN is essentially equal in its spiritual impact - i.e. if you keep the WHOLE LAW, but offend in one point, you're guilty of all (James 2:10), and there's NOTHING you can do about it yourself. You're Hell-bound.

In the OLD Testament, there was the "Temple sacrifice", where animal blood was splashed around and served as a "Covering" for the SIN of individuals, and once a year on the "Day of Atonement" there was a blood sacrifice to cover the SIN of the nation. of course the SIN REMAINED, and the sacrifices had to continue every year.

But then Jesus came along, kept the LAW perfectly, and was the perfect SIN OFFERING that not only COVERED Sin, but cleansed it / removed it completely.

"Salvation" is essentially our DEATH (with Christ on the cross), and being raised in NEWNESS of life (His life) and not our "old life" since our "Old Man" was crucified with Jesus. SO our "OLD MAN" didn't get away with anything, and the NEW LIFE in Jesus is what we live after becoming "born Again" - BY FAITH (gifted by God) in the perfect SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
Chuckle!! The issue is, of course that EVERYBODY sins - some in a more majestic fashion than others. And SOME sins have a more serious social effect than others. Stealing a loaf of bread is quite different in its social impact/significance than shooting 19 children and two teachers.

However ALL SIN is essentially equal in its spiritual impact - i.e. if you keep the WHOLE LAW, but offend in one point, you're guilty of all (James 2:10), and there's NOTHING you can do about it yourself. You're Hell-bound.

In the OLD Testament, there was the "Temple sacrifice", where animal blood was splashed around and served as a "Covering" for the SIN of individuals, and once a year on the "Day of Atonement" there was a blood sacrifice to cover the SIN of the nation. of course the SIN REMAINED, and the sacrifices had to continue every year.

But then Jesus came along, kept the LAW perfectly, and was the perfect SIN OFFERING that not only COVERED Sin, but cleansed it / removed it completely.

"Salvation" is essentially our DEATH (with Christ on the cross), and being raised in NEWNESS of life (His life) and not our "old life" since our "Old Man" was crucified with Jesus. SO our "OLD MAN" didn't get away with anything, and the NEW LIFE in Jesus is what we live after becoming "born Again" - BY FAITH (gifted by God) in the perfect SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross.
Yes or no, by not facing hell - the consequences - for your sins, you get away with them.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
Yes or no, by not facing hell - the consequences - for your sins, you get away with them.
For come christians it's a Yes but the answer is No. Christ's death on the cross makes salvation available, not a guarantee. There is a Christian on one of the apologetic sites that believes he does not sin because he is "with God". There is a price still to be paid for personal sin but the OSAS crowd sees it differently.

Since you aren't brave enough to read this and/or respond you will continue on in your blissful ignorance.
 
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Yakuda

Well-known member
Society has legal authority. Morals isn't telling other people what to do. That's what laws are for. Morals tell you yourself what to do. You are confused because your morals are secondhand anyway, do you can't tell the difference.
See I'm not sure what your people taught your spawn after the Americans handed your butts to you but the founders recognized how dangerous too much power in one place is. Every conversation with you makes me appreciate the pure genius of the founders more and more. The real revolution was the founders recognizing that Georgie and Parliament don't give people their rights. They knew rights were granted by the creator and the the govt are instituted to protect those rights. Without morals laws are nothing but tyranny.
 
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