Abortion Question?

[DavidEOliver]

- "Hypothetical Question: If men could get pregnant would abortion even be issue? I have know some female friends who got pregnant and were forced to have abortion by there so-called pro-life parents. I have met Christians who sincerely believe husband can force his wife or daughter to get abortion since he has right to rule the home. And I have even met Christians who also believe Father has right to kill his children if they fail him. And these good Christians all claim to be pro-life believers. Also I always wondered my so-called prolife Christians would want state to execute woman who is pregnant not waiting for baby to be born. If they believe fetus is human wouldn't they want to innocent baby to live? Makes me think this has nothing to do with fetus rather than being self-righteous and hypocritical people want to force others but make themselves exempt from same standards they judge others,"

 

[Yakuda]

- "Hypothetical Question: If men could get pregnant would abortion even be issue? I have know some female friends who got pregnant and were forced to have abortion by there so-called pro-life parents. I have met Christians who sincerely believe husband can force his wife or daughter to get abortion since he has right to rule the home. And I have even met Christians who also believe Father has right to kill his children if they fail him. And these good Christians all claim to be pro-life believers. Also I always wondered my so-called prolife Christians would want state to execute woman who is pregnant not waiting for baby to be born. If they believe fetus is human wouldn't they want to innocent baby to live? Makes me think this has nothing to do with fetus rather than being self-righteous and hypocritical people want to force others but make themselves exempt from same standards they judge others,"

You know some screwed "christians". Killing babies us evil. That's a fact no matter who gets pregnant.

 

[Algor]

- "Hypothetical Question: If men could get pregnant would abortion even be issue? I have know some female friends who got pregnant and were forced to have abortion by there so-called pro-life parents. I have met Christians who sincerely believe husband can force his wife or daughter to get abortion since he has right to rule the home. And I have even met Christians who also believe Father has right to kill his children if they fail him. And these good Christians all claim to be pro-life believers. Also I always wondered my so-called prolife Christians would want state to execute woman who is pregnant not waiting for baby to be born. If they believe fetus is human wouldn't they want to innocent baby to live? Makes me think this has nothing to do with fetus rather than being self-righteous and hypocritical people want to force others but make themselves exempt from same standards they judge others,"

Are you seriously claiming that gender determines ideology?

 

[Whateverman]

Are you seriously claiming that gender determines ideology?

I don't read it that way. He seems to be referring to the real motivation behind some Christians' opposition to abortion (re. patriarchy).

I've heard many women ask the same question (aka. would abortion be an issue if men could get pregnant). Part of me has always felt the answer was "maybe" - but I have to admit that the male chauvinism streak runs strong in right-wing conservative circles.

 

[Temujin]

I don't read it that way. He seems to be referring to the real motivation behind some Christians' opposition to abortion (re. patriarchy).

I've heard many women ask the same question (aka. would abortion be an issue if men could get pregnant). Part of me has always felt the answer was "maybe" - but I have to admit that the male chauvinism streak runs strong in right-wing conservative circles.

In the same way, endometriosis and period pain would have been sorted if men had them.

 

[Whateverman]

In the same way, endometriosis and period pain would have been sorted if men had them.

A cynic might say that, yes (and I'm not labeling you with that word).

It's an open question for me; I don't think the abortion issue would necessarily be gone if men gave birth, but I do think the issue wouldn't be as "controversial".

 

[Algor]

In the same way, endometriosis and period pain would have been sorted if men had them.

Just like we've sorted out prostatic hyperplasia? Like we've sorted out violent suicide?

 

[Algor]

I don't read it that way. He seems to be referring to the real motivation behind some Christians' opposition to abortion (re. patriarchy).

I've heard many women ask the same question (aka. would abortion be an issue if men could get pregnant). Part of me has always felt the answer was "maybe" - but I have to admit that the male chauvinism streak runs strong in right-wing conservative circles.

I think there is a large streak of male chauvinism, but the flip side of this is that there are lots of women who are opposed to abortion, and no small number of secularists.

If men got pregnant, they would be like women: some would see it as essentially a sacred trust, some would see it as a biological fact without overwhelming centrality, and some would look at it as a nuisance, because men, like women, are various and strange individuals, and not merely creatures of prejudice dictated by their gonads.

 

[Whateverman]

I think there is a large streak of male chauvinism, but the flip side of this is that there are lots of women who are opposed to abortion, and no small number of secularists.

If men got pregnant, they would be like women: some would see it as essentially a sacred trust, some would see it as a biological fact without overwhelming centrality, and some would look at it as a nuisance, because men, like women, are various and strange individuals, and not merely creatures of prejudice dictated by their gonads.

You're suggesting that nothing would be different? There'd be no change to the abortion debate if men could get pregnant?

This is just a hypothetical, so I don't think there's anything wrong with believing that - but I'm trying to understand your POV better...

 

[Algor]

You're suggesting that nothing would be different? There'd be no change to the abortion debate if men could get pregnant?

This is just a hypothetical, so I don't think there's anything wrong with believing that - but I'm trying to understand your POV better...

Well, it is a very large contrafactual: I think society as a whole would be very different, and the differences would depend on what a man or woman was biologically, and how they got pregnant and whatthechild care responsibilities were etc. etc. etc. So the history of things would be radically different.

But let's wave a wand and change everything tomorrow: the debate would certainly change for some people, yes indeed! I think some men, and maybe even a large proportion would change their tune really quickly. But I think some would not, and I think it would remain a permanent question. Some of the more idiotic rhetoric would decrease, but although the political aspects might change swiftly (I think because of the mere shock of the magic spell and associated social changes), they also might swing back and forth.

Put it this way: I have had a fairly up close, ongoing, although not intimate, professional view of this whole area for a while now. One thing I have come to appreciate is that there are repellant, extreme fanatics of surprising frequency and true believers on both sides, of both genders and of widely varying backgrounds even within the medical professions.

 

[Whateverman]

Well, it is a very large contrafactual: I think society as a whole would be very different, and the differences would depend on what a man or woman was biologically, and how they got pregnant and whatthechild care responsibilities were etc. etc. etc. So the history of things would be radically different.

But let's wave a wand and change everything tomorrow: the debate would certainly change for some people, yes indeed! I think some men, and maybe even a large proportion would change their tune really quickly. But I think some would not, and I think it would remain a permanent question. Some of the more idiotic rhetoric would decrease, but although the political aspects might change swiftly (I think because of the mere shock of the magic spell and associated social changes), they also might swing back and forth.

Put it this way: I have had a fairly up close, ongoing, although not intimate, professional view of this whole area for a while now. One thing I have come to appreciate is that there are repellant, extreme fanatics of surprising frequency and true believers on both sides, of both genders and of widely varying backgrounds even within the medical professions.

That was probably one of the best answers I've ever received to a simple question I'd asked.

Yes, I generally tend to agree

 

[Electric Skeptic]

...this has nothing to do with fetus rather than being self-righteous and hypocritical people want to force others but make themselves exempt from same standards they judge others,"

Yup. As I've been saying for years.

 

[Yakuda]

I don't read it that way. He seems to be referring to the real motivation behind some Christians' opposition to abortion (re. patriarchy).

I've heard many women ask the same question (aka. would abortion be an issue if men could get pregnant). Part of me has always felt the answer was "maybe" - but I have to admit that the male chauvinism streak runs strong in right-wing conservative circles.

Prove that the "real motivation" behind some christian opposition to abortion is patriarchy. Bet you never do.

Is it as strong as the stupidity streak that runs strong in leftist dimwit circles? Nah nothing could be THAT strong. After all leftist think people with penises are women.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

Prove that the "real motivation" behind some christian opposition to abortion is patriarchy. Bet you never do.

Since he never stated or claimed that, why would he even try to prove it?

Is it as strong as the stupidity streak that runs strong in leftist dimwit circles? Nah nothing could be THAT strong. After all leftist think people with penises are women.

Yawn.

 

[HillsboroMom]

If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

 

[Nathan P]

A cynic might say that, yes (and I'm not labeling you with that word).

It's an open question for me; I don't think the abortion issue would necessarily be gone if men gave birth, but I do think the issue wouldn't be as "controversial".

Women brought the issue of a artificial womb up on Yahoo, but when they were told there would have to be artificial muscle mass for them and they would get hurt and killed at the rate men do and go through millions if not billions of hours of therapy to get back to work so men could then run their mouths they got all these rights, or get a job, or stay home that shut them up because they knew in our hypothetical that they would then say they have more of a say over abortion because they are incubating men now longer than nine months and would be getting hurt and killed at a lot greater rate. Or they do not want that responsibility and want to leave it as it is where they have more of a choice.

 

[BMS]

- "Hypothetical Question: If men could get pregnant would abortion even be issue? I have know some female friends who got pregnant and were forced to have abortion by there so-called pro-life parents. I have met Christians who sincerely believe husband can force his wife or daughter to get abortion since he has right to rule the home. And I have even met Christians who also believe Father has right to kill his children if they fail him. And these good Christians all claim to be pro-life believers. Also I always wondered my so-called prolife Christians would want state to execute woman who is pregnant not waiting for baby to be born. If they believe fetus is human wouldn't they want to innocent baby to live? Makes me think this has nothing to do with fetus rather than being self-righteous and hypocritical people want to force others but make themselves exempt from same standards they judge others,"

Ugh?

 

[Manfred]

- "Hypothetical Question: If men could get pregnant would abortion even be issue? I have know some female friends who got pregnant and were forced to have abortion by there so-called pro-life parents. I have met Christians who sincerely believe husband can force his wife or daughter to get abortion since he has right to rule the home. And I have even met Christians who also believe Father has right to kill his children if they fail him. And these good Christians all claim to be pro-life believers. Also I always wondered my so-called prolife Christians would want state to execute woman who is pregnant not waiting for baby to be born. If they believe fetus is human wouldn't they want to innocent baby to live? Makes me think this has nothing to do with fetus rather than being self-righteous and hypocritical people want to force others but make themselves exempt from same standards they judge others,"

No such Christians as you describe above exist...
It is their fantasy that they are Christian. Their moral standards tell a different story.
Any idiot can claim to be anything and you will just fall for that because it suits your narrative.
Perhaps you should try and apply some critical thinking.

 

[Nathan P]

edit

You have to have an adult conversation and see what women would say if the shoe was on the other foot. But it is a fact that the ones who thought only they could incubate a child, that they and any resulting children have to be more so incubated by men.

 

[Temujin]

You have to have an adult conversation and see what women would say if the shoe was on the other foot. But it is a fact that the ones who thought only they could incubate a child, that they and any resulting children have to be more so incubated by men.

Sorry, Nathan. Before anyone can respond properly to this, you will have to find someone who can tell us what it means. My gut feeling is that it is total rubbish, but it is so garbled that I cannot be sure.