Abraham and Joseph Smith covenanted to live the New and Everlasting Covenant.

[Richard7]

I find it hypocritical of modern day Christians who state the Bible is infallible and yet deny plural marriage was practiced as a Law given to both... Old Testament Patriarchs and Joseph Smith...
Christians can't have it both ways, either the Bible is wrong and plural marriage forbidden and a sin, or they have to admit that the Old Testament Patriarchs did in deed practice plural marriage or the modern day label of polygamy... hmm

If you condemn Joseph Smith you have to condemn Abraham... what say you ?

 

[shnarkle]

I find it hypocritical of modern day Christians who state the Bible is infallible and yet deny plural marriage was practiced as a Law given to both... Old Testament Patriarchs and Joseph Smith...

Where does the bible state or depict any laws granting polygamy to the Patriarchs?

Christians can't have it both ways, either the Bible is wrong and plural marriage forbidden and a sin, or they have to admit that the Old Testament Patriarchs did in deed practice plural marriage or the modern day label of polygamy... hmm

Practicing polygamy is not the same as God granting them the right to practice polygamy. The difference is prescriptive versus descriptive.

If you condemn Joseph Smith you have to condemn Abraham... what say you ?

It's not my place to condemn anyone. However, Joseph Smith is determining polygamy to be a law granted by God whereas Abraham was taking a suggestion from his wife. Did Joseph Smith uphold the recommendations of women with the same weight as Abraham?

 

[Theo1689]

I find it hypocritical of modern day Christians who state the Bible is infallible and yet deny plural marriage was practiced as a Law given to both... Old Testament Patriarchs and Joseph Smith...

Plural marriage was NEVER "a Law given to both".
That's what you fail to understand.

Christians can't have it both ways, either the Bible is wrong and plural marriage forbidden and a sin,

Nope.
MORMONS can't have it both ways.
The Bible is RIGHT, and polygamy is a sin.

or they have to admit that the Old Testament Patriarchs did in deed practice plural marriage or the modern day label of polygamy... hmm

Yes.
"ALL have sinned" (Rom. 3:23).
Why do you have such great difficulty with such a simple Biblical teaching?

If you condemn Joseph Smith you have to condemn Abraham... what say you ?

Nope.
We don't condemn Smith for sinninng with polygamy.
We condemn him for being a false prophet, who rejected the God of the Bible, and rejected the salvation of the Bible.

Joseph Smith was a false prophet.
Abraham wasn't a false prophet.
Night and day.

 

[Richard7]

Where does the bible state or depict any laws granting polygamy to the Patriarchs?

Practicing polygamy is not the same as God granting them the right to practice polygamy. The difference is prescriptive versus descriptive.

It's not my place to condemn anyone. However, Joseph Smith is determining polygamy to be a law granted by God whereas Abraham was taking a suggestion from his wife. Did Joseph Smith uphold the recommendations of women with the same weight as Abraham?

How do you expect me to answer whether it is quiet about plural marriage or not... either way, you cannot provide anything that would suggest the Patriarchs were not given the Law of Plural marriage...

Yet you condemn Joseph Smith or if not you most all others here do... interesting... don't condemn Abraham and yet so easy to condemn JS... hmm

 

[Richard7]

Shnarkle: It's not my place to condemn anyone. However, Joseph Smith is determining polygamy to be a law granted by God whereas Abraham was taking a suggestion from his wife. Did Joseph Smith uphold the recommendations of women with the same weight as Abraham?

Excuse me, Abraham was not the only Patriarch to practice plural marriage... ​

 

[Theo1689]

Yet you condemn Joseph Smith or if not you most all others here do... interesting... don't condemn Abraham and yet so easy to condemn JS... hmm

Joseph Smith was a false prophet.
Abraham wasn't.

What part of that aren't you understanding?

 

[Theo1689]

Excuse me, Abraham was not the only Patriarch to practice plural marriage... ​

Correct!
All the patriarchs were sinners!
What part of that aren't you getting?

Rom. 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Or have you REDEFINED the word, "all"?

 

[brotherofJared]

Where does the bible state or depict any laws granting polygamy to the Patriarchs?
Practicing polygamy is not the same as God granting them the right to practice polygamy. The difference is prescriptive versus descriptive.

Regardless, the fact remains that they practiced polygamy. It is still talking out both sides when one condemns one prophet and accepts another for the very same practice. If it was wrong or evil, it seems odd that any mention of the practice would be included in scripture and yet we have it including laws that govern the proper practice of it.

 

[Theo1689]

Regardless, the fact remains that they practiced polygamy.

And polygamy is still a sin.

It is still talking out both sides when one condemns one prophet and accepts another for the very same practice.

Where has anyone done that?
NOWHERE.
This is a bankrupt straw-man on your part.

If it was wrong or evil, it seems odd that any mention of the practice would be included in scripture

Murder is wrong or evil, yet we have mentions of men (Moses, David, etc.) practicing it.
So now murder is virtuous, according to Mormons?

and yet we have it including laws that govern the proper practice of it.

No, the laws do NOT "govern the proper practice of it".
(And I note that you never actually QUOTE Scripture which supports your bankrupt claims, because there is none).

There are laws to protect the VICTIMS of the sin of polygamy.
Just like there are laws to protect the VICTIMS of the sin of murder.

 

[brotherofJared]

It's not my place to condemn anyone. However, Joseph Smith is determining polygamy to be a law granted by God whereas Abraham was taking a suggestion from his wife. Did Joseph Smith uphold the recommendations of women with the same weight as Abraham?

Do u think Jacob upheld the recommendations of women? Leah had no problem bearing children yet Jacob also had children by her handmaid. We don't have enough information to judge them for reasons they did what they did. However, we do know that they practiced polygamy. Polygamy is a natural extension of eternal marriage. Once one understands that polygamy is an eternal principle then all that remains is properly regulating it's practice. And that's what we see in the Bible law which continued to be the practice right up to the time that Jesus was born.

 

[brotherofJared]

Joseph Smith was a false prophet.
Abraham wasn't.

What part of that aren't you understanding?

What part of your opinion about what Joseph Smith was or was not is irrelevant to the facts that u don't understand? Sure, u don't believe he was a prophet, so what? That fact remains that prophets practiced polygamy. So, practicing polygamy is not the grounds one might dismiss a person from being a prophet. So, in direct reply to ur statement,

Joseph Smith was a true prophet just like Abraham was.

What part.of that aren't u understanding. ?

 

[Theo1689]

Do u think Jacob upheld the recommendations of women? Leah had no problem bearing children yet Jacob also had children by her handmaid. We don't have enough information to judge them for reasons they did what they did. However, we do know that they practiced polygamy.

Yes, and polygamy is a sin.
It always has been, and always will be.

Polygamy is a natural extension of eternal marriage.

There is NO SUCH THING as "eternal marriage".
Marriage ENDS at death:

Rom. 7:2 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. 3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

1Cor. 7:39 A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

Once one understands that polygamy is an eternal principle

It's not.

And that's what we see in the Bible law which continued to be the practice right up to the time that Jesus was born.

Yeppers...
People sinned right up to the time that Jesus was born.

That's hardly breaking news!

 

[Theo1689]

Sure, u don't believe he was a prophet, so what?

Just like you don't believe Rev. Moon was a prophet.
So what?

That fact remains that prophets practiced polygamy.

Yes, prophets sinned.

So, practicing polygamy is not the grounds one might dismiss a person from being a prophet. So, in direct reply to ur statement,

And once again, NOBODY is making that argument.
It's nothing but a worthless straw-man nof your own invention.

Joseph Smith was a true prophet just like Abraham was.

So it's impossible to determine that any self-proclaimed "prophet" was a false prophet?
So you accept Rev. Moon as a "prophet"?
And you accept Mary Baker Eddy as a "prophet"?
And you accept Warren Jeffs as a "prophet"?

 

[shnarkle]

How do you expect me to answer whether it is quiet about plural marriage or not...

You're the one making this claim. The burden of proof is upon you to document where you got this idea from.

either way, you cannot provide anything that would suggest the Patriarchs were not given the Law of Plural marriage...

Sure I can. There is no place in scripture where this law is prescribed. If so, where?

Yet you condemn Joseph Smith

Strawman argument. Where have I condemned Joseph Smith?

or if not you most all others here do... interesting... don't condemn Abraham and yet so easy to condemn JS... hmm

I don't really know much of anything about Joseph Smith, but if he prescribes plural marriage, then your comparison to Abraham isn't accurate.

 

[shnarkle]

Shnarkle: It's not my place to condemn anyone. However, Joseph Smith is determining polygamy to be a law granted by God whereas Abraham was taking a suggestion from his wife. Did Joseph Smith uphold the recommendations of women with the same weight as Abraham?

Excuse me, Abraham was not the only Patriarch to practice plural marriage... ​

I'm using your example. You're the one who mentioned Abraham so I replied to your claim. Perhaps you'd care to address my point now?

 

[shnarkle]

Regardless, the fact remains that they practiced polygamy.

They also worshipped false gods, fornicated, murdered, etc. Do you condone these activities as well?

It is still talking out both sides when one condemns one prophet and accepts another for the very same practice.

False. One is described doing something while another prescribes the same activity. Again, the examples are endless. Those who lust, but know it is sinful, are not the same as those who justify lust.

If it was wrong or evil, it seems odd that any mention of the practice would be included in scripture and yet we have it including laws that govern the proper practice of it.

What laws are you referring to?

 

[shnarkle]

Do u think Jacob upheld the recommendations of women?

Of course he did. Again, are you going to answer the question I posted or not?

Leah had no problem bearing children yet Jacob also had children by her handmaid. We don't have enough information to judge them for reasons they did what they did.

I don't see anything in scripture that suggests we're supposed to judge them either.

However, we do know that they practiced polygamy.

They practiced slavery, and child sacrifice as well.

Polygamy is a natural extension of eternal marriage.

So is polyandry.

Once one understands that polygamy is an eternal principle then all that remains is properly regulating it's practice. And that's what we see in the Bible law which continued to be the practice right up to the time that Jesus was born.

Again, could you please document where you're getting this from?

 

[brotherofJared]

Of course he did.

How so?

I don't see anything in scripture that suggests we're supposed to judge them either.

And yet u judge Joseph Smith. It's sad u can't see the irony in that. Sad but expected.

They practiced slavery, and child sacrifice as well.

Really? Where is ur evidence that either of those were "practiced"? If u think Abraham's one failed instance is practicing human sacrifice then that's pretty lame.

So is polyandry.

I'm not even going to entertain that but at least u see one of the natural consequences of eternal marriage. IMO, u over thought this one.

Nvm replying. I'm not going to read it anyway.

 

[shnarkle]

How so?

Your ignorance of scripture is profound. Jacob followed every step of his mother's plan to deceive his father.

And yet u judge Joseph Smith.

You're trolling now. Where am I judging Joseph Smith?

It's sad u can't see the irony in that. Sad but expected.

More trolling.

Really?

Yes, really.

Where is ur evidence that either of those were "practiced"?

Again, your ignorance of scripture is profound. There is much historical evidence within the pages of the Old Testament documenting the numerous times the children of Israel fell away from God's law and practiced numerous abominations including offering their children to Moloch. Google it if you are so averse to reading your own bible.

If u think Abraham's one failed instance is practicing human sacrifice then that's pretty lame.

Agreed.

I'm not even going to entertain that

You're getting pretty good at effectively conceding one point after another. Obviously, you have no defense for your position.

 

[Richard7]

Joseph Smith was a false prophet.
Abraham wasn't.

What part of that aren't you understanding?

EDIT insult