Abraham and Joseph Smith covenanted to live the New and Everlasting Covenant.

Here's the argument:.
Joseph Smith was instructed to practice polygamy given certain conditions. He, and other general authorities, didn't follow those conditions, and the Church was going to lose everything if they didn't give it up. Abraham was justified and JS wasn't. But hey, if you think we can just arbitrarily do whatever on the sole basis that someone once did something in the Bible, go get a couple more wives, use that rationale, and see how that works out for you.
I doubt very much that the church was going to lose everything... if God and His literal Son are in charge, there is no way we the Church or Kingdom of God could fail...I fear we do not have the faith sometimes in doing all that God asks of us, even plural marriage...

D&C 138
44 Daniel, who foresaw and foretold the establishment of the kingdom of God in the latter days, never again to be destroyed nor given to other people;
 
I doubt very much that the church was going to lose everything... if God and His literal Son are in charge, there is no way we the Church or Kingdom of God could fail...I fear we do not have the faith sometimes in doing all that God asks of us, even plural marriage...

D&C 138

44 Daniel, who foresaw and foretold the establishment of the kingdom of God in the latter days, never again to be destroyed nor given to other people;
I agree with the lack of faith, but as far polygamy goes I guess you can take that up with Wilford Woodruff. He said specifically, the temples would be lost, the priesthood would be imprisoned, etc.


I don't see Mormon fundamentalists "prospering in the land".
 
I agree with the lack of faith, but as far polygamy goes I guess you can take that up with Wilford Woodruff. He said specifically, the temples would be lost, the priesthood would be imprisoned, etc.

Jesus said, “Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.”

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.


I don't see Mormon fundamentalists "prospering in the land".
I do....
 
He's talking about the FLDS sect. I believe you are thinking that we are fundamentalists because we believe that there was no mistake made. @Aaron32 is not one of us.
My bad.... I really don't completely know where he is coming from... he sound like a Mormon and if he is, I think he has his own interpretation of our doctrine at times.
 
Jesus said, “Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.”

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.
Does a polygamous marriage belong to Caesar or God? In 132, it's says God gave the extra wives, so....?
If you did then how do you make sense of this:
"The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?
The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for … any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves"

Did Wilford lack faith? Why hasn't the church used the political process to give more advocacy for plural marriages? Why hasn't the church endorsed polygamy in countries where there are no laws. I think it's obvious, deep down, we know that it's wrong. (Atleast in the way it was practiced by early leaders).
 
Does a polygamous marriage belong to Caesar or God?
Again, it appears that you don't understand the argument. His statement wasn't about polygamy, it was about the decision to follow the law in the land in which our religion was founded. Rendering obedience to Caesar that which is Caesar's. They establish the laws. It went to the supreme court and the church lost the legal battle. So, like Adam, we had two conflicting laws, one that says we sustain the government and its laws and the other the commandment to practice polygamy. It seems to be a no-brainer which one to follow and I'm sure it wasn't very hard for Adam to figure out that he might as well remain with Eve.
 
Does a polygamous marriage belong to Caesar or God? In 132, it's says God gave the extra wives, so....?

If you did then how do you make sense of this:
"The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?
The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for … any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves"

Did Wilford lack faith? Why hasn't the church used the political process to give more advocacy for plural marriages? Why hasn't the church endorsed polygamy in countries where there are no laws. I think it's obvious, deep down, we know that it's wrong. (Atleast in the way it was practiced by early leaders).
I have no reason to debate our differences... in our church we at times all see things differently... our goal is to become untied as one.
That does not mean we have to think exactly a like or even share the same politics ... but simple basic doctrine we should agree upon...
basically Faith, Repentance, Baptism and gift of the HG....
because we see things differently does not mean either one of us will miss out on the Celestial Glory as long as we endure to the end...
 
Just one comment, if you lack faith in God and Jesus Christ and fear man and his laws, then I believe you don't trust in God or Jesus Christ and that some will think the Kingdom of God here on earth will be destroyed....much of our problems to day with young folks leaving the church is because we didn't deal with faith crisis issues involving the history of the church and other errors of some of our leaders in the past... so today we need more than ever to be transparent and let the cards fall as they may.... trusting in God and His Son Jesus Christ... Law of the land is important as is Gods commandments and laws.... choose wisely I say...
 
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I have no reason to debate our differences... in our church we at times all see things differently... our goal is to become untied as one.
That does not mean we have to think exactly a like or even share the same politics ... but simple basic doctrine we should agree upon...
basically Faith, Repentance, Baptism and gift of the HG....because we see things differently does not mean either one of us will miss out on the Celestial Glory as long as we endure to the end...
There is truth, and there is untruth. It’s not about “seeing it differently.” Either Joseph Smith was lying about polygamy being a commandment from God or he wasn’t.
 
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