Absolution in the message

Nic

Well-known member
Absolution in the message whether through the readings, the gospel or the message (homily) itself, what is the reason, if I have this right, that this mode of forgiveness isn't recognized during the Mass or is it?
I was promoted to ask this question by an exchange I had some time ago with one individual.

Thanks.
Nic.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Absolution in the message whether through the readings, the gospel or the message (homily) itself, what is the reason, if I have this right, that this mode of forgiveness isn't recognized during the Mass or is it?
I was promoted to ask this question by an exchange I had some time ago with one individual.

Thanks.
Nic.
Is not absolution obtained in the confessional rather than the mass; first one goes to confessional, then is prepared for the mass.
 

Nic

Well-known member
Is not absolution obtained in the confessional rather than the mass; first one goes to confessional, then is prepared for the mass.
I've been to Catholic Mass, I'm not talking about the perhaps more common understanding and recognition of absolution, but rather the kind a person hears in a sermon et al. I'm not even talking about the corporate understanding of absolution that takes place, but more to the individual hearing the absolution on the basis of the message, gospel read or other readings chiefly.
 

Nic

Well-known member
Is not absolution obtained in the confessional rather than the mass; first one goes to confessional, then is prepared for the mass.
What is absolution? Absolution is the promise of the forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ; being proclaimed not guilty.
Non-R Catholic Churches all but rely on the idea of absolution in the message in their sermons. Of course I'm restricting the setting to the church service in particular for the purposes of this thread.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
What is absolution? Absolution is the promise of the forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ; being proclaimed not guilty.
Non-R Catholic Churches all but rely on the idea of absolution in the message in their sermons. Of course I'm restricting the setting to the church service in particular for the purposes of this thread.
What I am saying is that RCC's confessional was for absolution; the mass was not designed for absolution. As a Catholic there was a feeling of guilt going to a confessional, never was there a message in the mass that made me feel guilt. Unless I deliberately lied in the confessional, then the guilt followed me into the mass; but the mass did not convict me of my guilt, only the dread of returning to the confessional to confess the lie.
 

Nic

Well-known member
What I am saying is that RCC's confessional was for absolution; the mass was not designed for absolution. As a Catholic there was a feeling of guilt going to a confessional, never was there a message in the mass that made me feel guilt. Unless I deliberately lied in the confessional, then the guilt followed me into the mass; but the mass did not convict me of my guilt, only the dread of returning to the confessional to confess the lie.
The Mass has corporate absolution as well. In the formal way it is offered towards the beginning. I'll see b if I can find and quote it. You'll recognize it I'm sure as soon as I do.
Penitential Act​
The Priest invites the faithful to the Penitential Act.​
e.g. I confess all my sins...​
Brethren (brothers and sisters), let us acknowledge our sins,​
and so prepare ourselves to celebrate the sacred mysteries.​
A brief pause for silence follows, and then one of the following Penitential Acts:​
All say:​
I confess to almighty God​
and to you, my brothers and sisters,​
that I have greatly sinned,​
in my thoughts and in my words,​
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do,​
And, striking their breast, they say:​
through my fault,​
through my fault,​
through my most grievous fault;​
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,​
all the Angels and Saints,​
and you, my brothers and sisters,​
to pray for me to the Lord our God.​
The absolution by the Priest follows:​
May almighty God have mercy on us,​
forgive us our sins,​
and bring us to everlasting life.​
Snipped from: The Order of the Mass
I contend there are other places as well but it varies with select readings, gospel or message, even that of hymns.

Nic
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
The Mass has corporate absolution as well. In the formal way it is offered towards the beginning. I'll see b if I can find and quote it. You'll recognize it I'm sure as soon as I do.
Penitential Act​
The Priest invites the faithful to the Penitential Act.​
e.g. I confess all my sins...​
Brethren (brothers and sisters), let us acknowledge our sins,​
and so prepare ourselves to celebrate the sacred mysteries.​
A brief pause for silence follows, and then one of the following Penitential Acts:​
All say:​
I confess to almighty God​
and to you, my brothers and sisters,​
that I have greatly sinned,​
in my thoughts and in my words,​
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do,​
And, striking their breast, they say:​
through my fault,​
through my fault,​
through my most grievous fault;​
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,​
all the Angels and Saints,​
and you, my brothers and sisters,​
to pray for me to the Lord our God.​
The absolution by the Priest follows:​
May almighty God have mercy on us,​
forgive us our sins,​
and bring us to everlasting life.​
Snipped from: The Order of the Mass
I contend there are other places as well but it varies with select readings, gospel or message, even that of hymns.

Nic
No need for confessionals, if I could have received absolution from the mass without having to reveal my sins in a confessional.
 

Maxtar

Active member
No need for confessionals, if I could have received absolution from the mass without having to reveal my sins in a confessional.
Going to a priest is more than just confessing one's sins. My wife had problems with my father who lived with us and she received some very good guidance from our priest on how to deal with him.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Going to a priest is more than just confessing one's sins. My wife had problems with my father who lived with us and she received some very good guidance from our priest on how to deal with him.
Confessing sins is not the same as guidance.
 

Nic

Well-known member
No need for confessionals, if I could have received absolution from the mass without having to reveal my sins in a confessional.
Private confession and absolution grew out of private counseling. It was for persons having one form of trouble as stated in example above by another. Often for whatever reason individuals (or couples, so it seems) needed to hear that their sins were forgiven because they struggled hearing and receiving it corporately. It was provided by the church to assure them their sins were indeed forgiven if they were penitent.
 

mica

Well-known member
Private confession and absolution grew out of private counseling. It was for persons having one form of trouble as stated in example above by another. Often for whatever reason individuals (or couples, so it seems) needed to hear that their sins were forgiven because they struggled hearing and receiving it corporately. It was provided by the church to assure them their sins were indeed forgiven if they were penitent.
if the one teaching is a believer you'd be hearing it on a regular basis - in every teaching.
 

mica

Well-known member
mica said:
if the one teaching is a believer you'd be hearing it on a regular basis - in every teaching.
The Order of the Mass ensures that very thing. See post #6.
nope, I see nothing in that but mindless wording made up by men.

from post 6 -
You'll recognize it I'm sure as soon as I do
I recognize it from the Mass. a waste of time. just words of men that deceive people.

If that's what I heard at my church I'd be searching for a new one.
 

mica

Well-known member
Private confession and absolution grew out of private counseling. It was for persons having one form of trouble as stated in example above by another. Often for whatever reason individuals (or couples, so it seems) needed to hear that their sins were forgiven because they struggled hearing and receiving it corporately. It was provided by the church to assure them their sins were indeed forgiven if they were penitent.
so just made up by men...
 

Nic

Well-known member
so just made up by men...
No not really, even if it was its a good and useful practice. Ever hear about bearing each other's burdens? I can see how counseling echoes and follows that very well, can you ?
 

Nic

Well-known member
nope, I see nothing in that but mindless wording made up by men.

from post 6 -

I recognize it from the Mass. a waste of time. just words of men that deceive people.

If that's what I heard at my church I'd be searching for a new one.
Well sometimes people have different ideas about the way things should be done, I guess your form of church, whatever that entails, works well for you. I'm happy for you. I read it, I think it's great. It goes without saying you don't appreciate the form and design of the order of the Mass. More power to you.
 

mica

Well-known member
Well sometimes people have different ideas about the way things should be done, I guess your form of church, whatever that entails, works well for you. I'm happy for you. I read it, I think it's great. It goes without saying you don't appreciate the form and design of the order of the Mass. More power to you.
no doubt from what I read here. If you don't take your sin before God Himself (one to one) with a repentant heart, nothing is forgiven.

again, catholics just rattle off pre-scripted words. Their heart is not involved, nor is God.
 

mica

Well-known member
No not really, even if it was its a good and useful practice. Ever hear about bearing each other's burdens? I can see how counseling echoes and follows that very well, can you ?
good for what?

that isn't what happens at a Mass.
 
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