Absolution in the message

Nic

Well-known member
no doubt from what I read here. If you don't take your sin before God Himself (one to one) with a repentant heart, nothing is forgiven.

again, catholics just rattle off pre-scripted words. Their heart is not involved, nor is God.
When you first heard the gospel were you saved right then?
 

Nic

Well-known member
good for what?

that isn't what happens at a Mass.
Good and useful practice for all I would contend, at least the format.
Your previous purple comment wasn't about the Mass but rather a comment concerning private absolution and my contention that the practice grew out of private counseling.
Try referring back to the previous comments, it's not a busy topic so tge quotes aren't really getting buried.
See post #16 for a refresher of what we were talking about.
 
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mica

Well-known member
When you first heard the gospel were you saved right then?
no. but I also didn't know what it was or meant - in my heart. they were just words i was taught - head knowledge. the 2 are an eternity apart.

I should ask - what do you consider to be the gospel?
 

Nic

Well-known member
no. but I also didn't know what it was or meant - in my heart. they were just words i was taught - head knowledge. the 2 are an eternity apart.
Well okay, was there a point in time when you heard something and knew you were saved?
 

Nic

Well-known member
yes... eventually. when I was saved I didn't know what it was / what happened to me.
Don't take this the wrong way and I'm happy you have faith, but your "as to how" is a sad story. (I may of inferred something not true, if so I'm sorry. I'm trying to right that in the following salvage post.)
 
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Nic

Well-known member
yes... eventually. when I was saved I didn't know what it was / what happened to me.
Maybe we can salvage this? Do you know how things transpired? We're you at a bowling alley? Maybe you were at a church?
p.s.
I had a point to make and I don't require the details beyond the how it came down to the best of your recollection.
 

Nic

Well-known member
no doubt from what I read here. If you don't take your sin before God Himself (one to one) with a repentant heart, nothing is forgiven.

again, catholics just rattle off pre-scripted words. Their heart is not involved, nor is God.
Structure and form are not bad things, just look at civilization. Structure and form provide a sense of order. That's a good thing as I see it. I knew A lady who attended a quaker "service" if you could call it that. They all sat around in a circle and everyone had the floor to speak as the spirt led them. This lady who spoke, wasn't even a Christian. She wanted to expose her kids to various religions so they could choose for themselves when they got older. She was hoping to find a Christian church that didn't talk much about Christ. Although there is some order with this setting, the order of the Mass is Christian and that same order protects the worship service from things not focused in the Mass.
 
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mica

Well-known member
mica said:
no doubt from what I read here. If you don't take your sin before God Himself (one to one) with a repentant heart, nothing is forgiven.

again, catholics just rattle off pre-scripted words. Their heart is not involved, nor is God.
Structure and form are not bad things, just look at civilization.
man's made up way OVER God's way = bad
 

mica

Well-known member
Structure and form are not bad things, just look at civilization. Structure and form provide a sense of order. That's a good thing as I see it. I knew A lady who attended a quaker "service" if you could call it that. They all sat around in a circle and everyone had the floor to speak as the spirt led them. This lady who spoke, wasn't even a Christian. She wanted to expose her kids to various religions so they could choose for themselves when they got older.
did you suggest the RCC to her?

She was hoping to find a Christian church that didn't talk much about Christ.
if they don't then they aren't a Christian church.

Although there is some order with this setting, the order of the Mass is Christian and that same order protects the worship service from things not focused in the Mass.
no it isn't.

yes, focus is on the man made 'worship' of the Mass, not on Christ.
 

Nic

Well-known member
did you suggest the RCC to her?
No. She was born into a Catholic home. She took them there a handful of times on the exploratory tour for her kids.
if they don't then they aren't a Christian church.
She isn't a Christian, She doesn't really care about that.
no it isn't.
Sure it is.
yes, focus is on the man made 'worship' of the Mass, not on Christ.
No. You are not right about that either.
 

Merton

New Member
Absolution in the message whether through the readings, the gospel or the message (homily) itself, what is the reason, if I have this right, that this mode of forgiveness isn't recognized during the Mass or is it?
I was promoted to ask this question by an exchange I had some time ago with one individual.

Thanks.
Nic.
The absolution is not always included in the readings, because not all readings deal specifically with absolution, although absolution is probably involved somehow in any reading. The Good Samaritan story, for example, asks us who was acting as a good neighbor, though that includes the fact that the Good Samaritan is also the one not extending judgment on the one in need but is being merciful - and then we can remember that Jesus taught that we are not to judge one another and that God uses the same measure of mercy with us as we use with one another.

When not explicit in the readings, absolution comes up repeatedly in many ways. There is the formal group Confession, which I know you posted, after which the priest says, "May Almighty God have mercy on us." Note that this is not an absolution in itself but points to what's coming. What's coming is further prepared by the Kyrie - "Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy," and then later by the Lord's Prayer "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" and our own forgiveness towards others in the handshakes "Peace be with you." Then, reciting that we are nevertheless still not worthy to receive God's life ("we are not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed") the absolution itself is prepared by the remembrance of the cross and then carried out in reception of the bread and wine, which are Christ's own life that comes into us which is what heals us from our sinfulness. Christ's life is God's mercy. It heals us. In this way, the earlier prayer from the Mass comes true that "He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world." (Not just forgives, but takes away.)


Note that in the Confessional, a person is told that they are absolved, and this announcement is meant to have the effect of loosening them (lit: ab-solving) from their past sins and present sinfulness. In the Mass, the sequence is the other way around. Christ's life enters you through the bread and wine and loosens you from your sinfulness, carrying away your old sins in the process. After this healing, you are then told implicitly of your legal forgiveness with the words, "Go in peace, to love and serve the Lord."
 
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