according to the saints, very very few make it to Heaven

e v e 21

Well-known member
and since you taught about the ECF's, did you see a physical church with leaders -- through the 'laying on of hands'?
His church is not of this world.

Christ said He is from above.

Also, most ecfs were platonists.
So their opinions are most often wrong.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
This is what the canonized saints say, that hardly anyone gets into Heaven

there is St Bernard
St Augustine
St Bellarmine

St Jerome

and others..

And they were all Catholic, so there's that...

How do they know?
They've been given the ability to see into their own heart which is just like any other human heart. They see what Jeremiah sees when he says, "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked" Note that if the heart is deceitful above all things, wouldn't this include Satan as well? Perhaps Satan is the personification of the human heart.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Jesus himself said that few find the way to life, so it doesn't make any difference what the saints said.
It sorta suggests that they're saints, no? They're affirming what Jesus taught. Why wouldn't that count for something? Moreover, in all probability it affirms the fact that most people will not find salvation.
Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
Matt. 7:13,14 ESV
What could be easier than professing some Christian teachings, and being told you're saved?
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
It sorta suggests that they're saints, no? They're affirming what Jesus taught. Why wouldn't that count for something? Moreover, in all probability it affirms the fact that most people will not find salvation.

What could be easier than professing some Christian teachings, and being told you're saved?
maybe you don’t want souls to meet Him?

those in the list are not His saints.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
The OT fathers got cursed
for not listening Him.

instead they followed their traditions
and got cursed.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
example ‘saint’ augustine… his texts explicitly equate God with platonic forms and aristotelian substance.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
by their own words they are greek, not christian.

The later aquinas makes sure christianity conforms to his beloved aristotle.

Basically most ecf opinions are useless given their loyalties.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
Ignatius? How?
Polycarp? How?
Clement? How?
I was commenting on those listed in the op.
by searching if the ones you list (ignatius, polycarp, clement) believed in plato in what they wrote their own works and
in a library or online you can easily find online if these were also platonists.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
the catholic church admits it is syncretic to greek beliefs.
this is documented historically. the ecfs and popes and bishops did NOT hide their syncretism
not even slightly, in their written works.
 
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