Adam Shamed and Killed (“crucified”) by a Tree

[docphin5]

(I am putting this in the Jewish section because it appertains to the interpretation of Adam in Hebrew scriptures. I am demonstrating below that “Christ crucified” may be none other than Adam shamed and killed (“crucified”) by a tree. IOW, presume no alleged historical Gospel Jesus.)

In his letter to the Galatians (at 3:1), Paul demanded to know,

Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was written beforehand (proegraphe (1), see also, Rom. 15:4, (2)) as crucified.

Paul suggests to his disciples in Galatia (far from Jerusalem) could see with their “very eyes” that Christ’s death was written in scripture (rather than see it as an event in Palestine). (Please note that contrary to what many assume, this passage lacks any historical Gospel Jesus dying on an actual cross.)

Suspend disbelief for a moment and try to think like Paul. Certainly, Paul is resorting to a pesher approach or method of allegorizing scripture to perceive his crucified Christ in scripture and he expected his audience to do the same. Let us critically investigate how and in what way Jesus or Joshua was crucified in scripture? Admittedly, a task not easy to do, because a few verses later (Galatians 3:13) he links Christ’s death to Deuteronomy 21:23. At first, it is not clear what point is to be taken from this.

If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance. (Deut 21:22-23)

I propose the missing link between Paul’s original thought of Christ crucified and this passage can be found at Romans 5:14, “Adam, who was a TYPE of the one who was to come.” In Paul’s mind Adam represents all humanity condemned by Jehovah for eating fruit from a tree, for

“Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all Men.” (Romans 5:12).

IOW, our outer man, i.e., body formed by Jehovah (Gen 2:7), is cursed by Jehovah, therefore, before our “very eyes” our mortal bodies, aka, Adam, is crucified or shamed and killed by a tree. Again, “Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day..” (2 corinthians 4:16)

It begs the question, if the outer man is wasting away or being crucified or cursed by Jehova, then who or what is the inner man?

The inner man would be the Adam made alive by the Holy Spirit, renewed by the cycle of Days.

I do not have time to go into details but Paul is presuming the foundation of duality established by the Essenes for the history and future of humanity. All humanity, aka, outer or bodily or fleshy Adam, has been crucified by Jehova, whereas, all “sons of light”, aka, inner or heavenly or spiritual Adam, are being “renewed day by day” by the Holy Spirit.

I think Paul’s point is that ritual purity prescribed in the Mosaic Law has no efficacy in removing the curse placed by Jehova on all of us, i.e., the outer Adam. It is only through the inner Holy Spirit making Adam alive and free from the curse that we become alive.

It is truly amazing to perceive a universal messiah or holy spirit bringing salvation (”Yeshua”) to humanity, aka, Adam, through his ”two anointed ones”, namely, the Teacher of Righteousness and Paul, “a prophet like Moses”, and “a light to the nations”, respectively.

References
1) prographó: to write before Original Word: προγράφω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: prographó
Phonetic Spelling: (prog-raf'-o)
Definition: to write before
Usage: (a) I write previously (aforetime); I write above (already), (b) I depict or portray openly, (c) I designate beforehand.


2) (Romans 15:4) “For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.”

 

[docphin5]

<snip>

I do not have time to go into details but Paul is presuming the foundation of duality established by the Essenes for the history and future of humanity. All humanity, aka, outer or bodily or fleshy Adam, has been crucified by Jehova, whereas, all “sons of light”, aka, inner or heavenly or spiritual Adam, are being “renewed day by day” by the Holy Spirit.

<snip>

For those who don’t know what duality I am referring to, here is the reference found in the Essene “Charter of a Jewish Sectarian Association”. This is where they lay out the history and future of all humanity, ie, Adam, ruled by two principles, one of adversity associated with the flesh or body of man and another forming the moral consciousness of man...and if you listen real close, you can faintly hear the voice of Paul echo the thought of his Master, namely, the TOR, when Paul writes later,

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one [Adam or humanity] in Christ Jesus”. (Galatians 3:28)

“The character and fate of all humankind reside with these [two] spirits…God has appointed these [two] spirits as equals until the last age, and set an everlasting enmity between their divisions...Fierce dispute attends every point of decision, for they can never agree. In his mysterious insight and glorious wisdom [the Most High] God has countenanced an era in which perversity triumphs,
BUT
at the time appointed for visitation [“day by day”] He shall destroy such forever…By his truth God shall then purify all human deeds, refine some of humanity so as to extinguish every perverse spirit from the inward parts of the flesh, cleansing from every wicked deed by a Holy Spirit.” (Wise, a New Translation, the Dead Sea Scrolls, pg. 121)

 

[sk0rpi0n]

I think Paul’s point is that ritual purity prescribed in the Mosaic Law has no efficacy in removing the curse placed by Jehova on all of us, i

God did not place a "curse" on all of us.

because a few verses later (Galatians 3:13) he links Christ’s death to Deuteronomy 21:23.

That's because Paul had a habit of distorting and misquoting Old Testament scriptures.

Deuteronomy 21:22-23 is specifically about people who are guilty of sins worthy of death. The full passage reads as follows.

“If a man has committed a sin worthy of death, and he is executed, and you hang his body on a tree, you must not leave the body on the tree overnight, but you must be sure to bury him that day, because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God’s curse” (Deuteronomy 21:22-23)

I'm sure you'll agree with me that Jesus never committed a sin worthy of death. So that passage simply cannot be applied to Jesus. But Paul does it anyway by selectively quoting a PART of the passage to support his doctrine that Christ became a “curse”.

“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree’” (Galatians 3:13)

 

[Open Heart]

Adam was crucified? Tooooo funny.

 

[docphin5]

God did not place a "curse" on all of us.

And to Adam he said,...
cursed is the ground because of you;

in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread,
till you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”
Genesis 3:17

That's because Paul had a habit of distorting and misquoting Old Testament scriptures.

Deuteronomy 21:22-23 is specifically about people who are guilty of sins worthy of death. The full passage reads as follows.

“If a man has committed a sin worthy of death, and he is executed, and you hang his body on a tree, you must not leave the body on the tree overnight, but you must be sure to bury him that day, because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God’s curse” (Deuteronomy 21:22-23)

I'm sure you'll agree with me that Jesus never committed a sin worthy of death. So that passage simply cannot be applied to Jesus. But Paul does it anyway by selectively quoting a PART of the passage to support his doctrine that Christ became a “curse”.

“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree’” (Galatians 3:13)

The historical Gospel Jesus is irrelevant to this OP. The Gospel stories were not even written until after Paul's death so he neither heard of them nor read them. The only scriptures Paul had to work with were the Hebrew scriptures.

Using ONLY Hebrew scriptures, Paul perceived the crucified christ as "written beforehand" in Adam who represents us all: "Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man ("Adam") when they were created." (Gen 5:2)

Why was it written this way and for what reason? If not for our instruction, then what? That is what you have to ask yourself.

Apparently, the Teacher of Righteousness and Paul perceived two principles or powers over two Adams. One of those powers curses the material body formed from "dust". The other power forms a moral conscious within Adam, making Adam in his own image, that is, righteous and holy.

Therefore, unless you have a better interpretation of your scriptures regarding "them", named, Adam, then you should not be too quick to dismiss their interpretation of the Law.

The overall point of this interpretation by the TOR and Paul was to show that all humans are in need of the indwelling Holy Spirit who forms a moral conscious in us. It is his presence that is the Anointing or Messiah. He enlightens, he vivifies, and he brings order to the cosmos. It is his righteousness in us that is God's righteousness. This gift of salvation or "Yeshua" is available to all humans irregardless of nationality, race, language, economic status, biologic sex, etc. A pious, virtuous life is the ideal spiritual worship of God.

I have asked myself, why the emphasis on the crucified Christ by Paul. I read the Dead Sea Scrolls and find little to no reference to the crucified Christ. Why is it so important to Paul?

The best answer I can come up with is that Jews were hung up on the idea of a penalty for sin. They could easily accept the idea of righteousness via the indwelling holy spirit but what about the penalty for sin. Animal sacrifice had been an important part of second temple Judaism. The Essenes had abandoned it as a practice having replaced it with water baptism. So in answer to those Jews needing an answer, Paul says the penalty for sin was paid by the body of Adam shamed and killed by a tree (aka "the crucified Christ") "written beforehand in scripture". For this reason, his penalty is our penalty too, as our mortal bodies suffer and return to dust.

On the other hand, the Holy Spirit forms another Adam who never dies, who is like the Holy Spirit, made in his image, possessing a moral conscious, absolute, perfected, and virtuous. This Adam is our inner self surrendered to the Holy Spirit.

All of this ^^^^^^^ was written for our instruction and is applicable to all human beings on the planet from the beginning of time until the end of time. The majesty contained in your scriptures, eternally true, holy, ... revealed first by the Teacher of Righteousness and reiterated by Paul. The world has not been the same since their presence on earth because the precepts and the form of Christianity can be attributed to them. Two humans, "two anointed ones", who changed the world.

 

[sk0rpi0n]

And to Adam he said,...
cursed is the ground because of you;

in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread,
till you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”
Genesis 3:17

1. The ground was cursed, not Adam,
2. Adam obviously received some sort of a chastisement, and as a result that affected the lives of his progeny. But that doesn't mean he was cursed per se.

Throughout the Bible we read of men who were righteous in the sight of God (like Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Job, Daniel etc). If all men are cursed, then it means those men were righteous before God, in spite of being cursed by God which makes zero sense.

The historical Gospel Jesus is irrelevant to this OP. The Gospel stories were not even written until after Paul's death so he neither heard of them nor read them. The only scriptures Paul had to work with were the Hebrew scriptures.

Using ONLY Hebrew scriptures, Paul perceived the crucified christ as "written beforehand" in Adam who represents us all: "Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man ("Adam") when they were created." (Gen 5:2)

Paul had his own ideas about things. Paul never met Jesus when the latter lived on earth. Paul used to persecute Christians. But later claimed without evidence that he had a vision of Jesus and was appointed as an apostle.

Paul was not an apostle, let alone the "light to the nations”. He merely claimed for himself the prophecy found in Isaiah 49:6.

 

[docphin5]

1. The ground was cursed, not Adam,

Scripture explicitly says Jehova cursed him formed of dust, —the matter forming his body or flesh. The curse affects us all for outer man suffers and dies (returns to the ground) like Adam. Deal with it!

2. Adam obviously received some sort of a chastisement, and as a result that affected the lives of his progeny. But that doesn't mean he was cursed per se.

Helloooo…?, earth calling Scorpion, Hear what you are saying…^^^^^^^

”Because you have done this, CURSED are you…” (Gen 3:14)

Throughout the Bible we read of men who were righteous in the sight of God (like Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Job, Daniel etc). If all men are cursed, then it means those men were righteous before God, in spite of being cursed by God which makes zero sense.

The outer man is cursed by Jehova, ie, the material body. The outer man wastes away, is susceptible to passions, impulses, irrational thoughts. It sometimes covets what it should not have, inordinate desires come from the flesh.

It does not mean flesh is absolute evil for when the body is regulated by a moral conscious formed by the indwelling Holy Spirit, ie., the second Adam, then flesh or body is bridled, tamed for good. IOW, there is also good that comes from the material world when it is regulated, ordered by reason, spirit, or mind of God. For example, the right amount of sunlight feeds life on our planet. Too much sunlight results in droughts and famines.

The Patriarchs were righteous because of the indwelling presence of the holy spirit sent by the God Most High whom they served. Whereas, Jehova is the accuser, who has cursed the flesh formed of dust of all Adam, ie., humanity, —the “them” of Gen 5:2. We are saved not by the “works” established by Jehova, for example, ritual purity, temple sacrifice, observance of feasts or sabbaths, BUT by the moral conscious formed in us by the holy spirit resulting in a pious, virtuous life. The Law is for lawbreakers whereas the holy spirit is for the sons and daughters of the Most High God.

Paul had his own ideas about things. Paul never met Jesus when the latter lived on earth. Paul used to persecute Christians. But later claimed without evidence that he had a vision of Jesus and was appointed as an apostle.

Again, the alleged historical Gospel Jesus has no relevance to this OP. The ONLY scriptures Paul had to work with were from the Hebrew scriptures. He also had Greek philosophy which influenced him.

Paul was not an apostle, let alone the "light to the nations”. He merely claimed for himself the prophecy found in Isaiah 49:6.

If Paul was not the “light to the nations” then the one who is to be a light to the nations has a hard act to follow for not only is Paul responsible for over half of the New Testament, his doctrines and precepts are found or followed in every nation, especially in the Western world.

Moreover, the Teacher of Righteousness is “the prophet like Moses” for interpreting the Law and forming the body (the “body of Christ” or “church” or “congregation”) which these precepts would take as an anointed one, ie., the Christ foretold by the prophets. IOW, he truly is a Teacher of Righteousness gathering the sons and daughters of light to himself, the mountain in the middle which rises to heaven. If the TOR was God’s “prophet” then Paul was his “Priest” (According to Melchizedek).

 

[sk0rpi0n]

Helloooo…?, earth calling Scorpion, Hear what you are saying…^^^^^^^

”Because you have done this, CURSED are you…” (Gen 3:14)

Read Genesis 3:14 again.

"So the Lord God said to the SERPENT, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock..." (Genesis 3:14)

It was the serpent that was cursed. Not Adam.

Scripture explicitly says Jehova cursed him formed of dust, —the matter forming his body or flesh. The curse affects us all for outer man suffers and dies (returns to the ground) like Adam. Deal with it!

The soil being cursed does not mean the man, who made made of soil, was cursed. You're extrapolating.

The outer man is cursed by Jehova, ie, the material body. The outer man wastes away, is susceptible to passions, impulses, irrational thoughts. It sometimes covets what it should not have, inordinate desires come from the flesh.

Huh? The flesh is just living tissue. Organic matter that doesn't "think" or "desire" anything.

Evil desires and impulses originate in a persons thoughts.

Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time. (Genesis 6:5)

The ONLY scriptures Paul had to work with were from the Hebrew scriptures.

Ok. But it still remains that Paul habitually misquoted and distorted Hebrew scriptures.

If Paul was not the “light to the nations” then the one who is to be a light to the nations has a hard act to follow for not only is Paul responsible for over half of the New Testament, his doctrines and precepts are found and followed in every nation, especially in the Western world.

Paul could not have been the "light to the nations" because he himself says he was prevented from preaching in Asia by the Holy Spirit and the spirit of Jesus (Acts 16:6-7). Its ludicrous that the "light of the nations" would be prevented from preaching by the Holy Spirit. That's just one proof. There are many others, but that'll take a separate thread.

Paul writing half of the NT just is irrelevant. Paul's work comprising half of the NT should raise questions about how the NT was compiled.

 

[docphin5]

Read Genesis 3:14 again.

"So the Lord God said to the SERPENT, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock..." (Genesis 3:14)

It was the serpent that was cursed. Not Adam.

My mistake. I should have quoted Gen 3:17. My point remains the same.

“…cursed is the ground because of you;”

The soil being cursed does not mean the man, who made made of soil, was cursed. You're extrapolating.

The soil is the “dust” that Jehova uses to form the body of man (Gen 2:7). The text explicitly says that Jehova’s curse involves suffering, labor, and death, to Adam, who ultimately returns to the cursed ground or dust he came from. It applies to all of us both literally (real life) and figuratively to us in scripture (Gen 5:2), where “Adam“ is defined as them, both male and female, the parents of humanity (Not literally, of course, but figuratively, for instruction.)

Huh? The flesh is just living tissue. Organic matter that doesn't "think" or "desire" anything.

Evil desires and impulses originate in a persons thoughts.

Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time. (Genesis 6:5)

Confusing the types with the real thing does not make sense to a lot of people. I suggest not doing that. Human “hearts” do not think.

”For the [inordinate] desires of the flesh are against the Spirit,” (Gal 5:17)

Ok. But it still remains that Paul habitually misquoted and distorted Hebrew scriptures.

Your opinion is noted. What I have discovered is that his words have been distorted by others. Translating texts into other languages creates many possibilities in meaning. Hebrew scriptures are no different. Depending on how one translates the words different meanings can be derived.

Paul interpreted Hebrew scriptures, wrote his ideas into Greek, which were translated into Latin by the Roman church,…so many potential risks (or opportunities) to his intended meaning before being taught to the masses.

Paul could not have been the "light to the nations" because he himself says he was prevented from preaching in Asia by the Holy Spirit and the spirit of Jesus (Acts 16:6-7). Its ludicrous that the "light of the nations" would be prevented from preaching by the Holy Spirit. That's just one proof. There are many others, but that'll take a separate thread.

Paul writing half of the NT just is irrelevant. Paul's work comprising half of the NT should raise questions about how the NT was compiled.

Nevertheless, the precepts of christianity are everywhere, in many nations, an undeniable fact and Paul is attributed with being the major contributor.

 

[sk0rpi0n]

…cursed is the ground because of you;”

yeah. the ground was cursed. Not Adam.

The soil is the “dust” that Jehova uses to form the body of man. The text explicitly says that Jehova’s curse involves suffering, labor, and death, to Adam, who ultimately returns to the cursed ground or dust he came from. It applies to all of us both literally (real life) and figuratively to us in scripture (Gen 5:2),

Adam was a human, not soil or dust. God cursing the soil doesn't mean God was cursing the man he made from the soil. You're making a leap in logic.

Confusing the types with the real thing does not make sense to a lot of people. I suggest not doing that. Human “hearts” do not think.

The "heart" in the Bible is a reference to the human mind.

Your opinion is noted. What I have discovered is that his words have been distorted by others

It's not my opinion. From what read in his epistles, Paul did distort and misquote the OT. That's just one issue with Paul. There are many others.

Nevertheless, the precepts of christianity are everywhere, in many nations, an undeniable fact and Paul is attributed with being the major contributor.

Exactly what precepts of Christianity that Paul taught are in many nations?

Paul's "contribution" to Christianity was that he ended the Law and opened the door to anarchy and lawlessness.

 

[docphin5]

yeah. the ground was cursed. Not Adam.



Adam was a human, not soil or dust. God cursing the soil doesn't mean God was cursing the man he made from the soil. You're making a leap in logic.

“then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground.” (Gen 2:7)

seems logical to me.

The "heart" in the Bible is a reference to the human mind.

The “heart” represents the will of man. It is the choice or will of man to either serve the inordinate desires of his flesh or serve the moral conscious formed by the Holy Spirit.

Per scripture, Jehova forms the body of man from dust or ground that Jehova cursed, whereas, the Holy Spirit forms the moral conscious within man that brings life.

It's not my opinion. From what read in his epistles, Paul did distort and misquote the OT. That's just one issue with Paul. There are many others.

In a sense, we are in agreement that Paul’s thoughts are sometimes hard to understand. I attribute that to poor translation, exegesis, interpolations, glosses, from the many copies made of his words. The Dead Sea Scrolls serve to illuminate his intended meaning. That is where the effort should be to untangle those problematic passages. For example, Romans 7 makes more sense in light of the Essene doctrine of duality, ie., flesh versus spirit, darkness versus light.

Exactly what precepts of Christianity that Paul taught are in many nations?

Paul's "contribution" to Christianity was that he ended the Law and opened the door to anarchy and lawlessness.

not if led by the Holy Spirit. Not if led by the conscious formed by the Holy Spirit. The ideal or spiritual form of worship is a pious, virtuous soul which is open to anyone in any nation, male or female. In Christ all are equal. It is why the promise to Abraham is to many nations BEFORE the Mosaic Law or circumcision.

”For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Gal 5:14)

Paul does not endorse anarchy, as you say.

 

[Jewjitzu]

(I am putting this in the Jewish section because it appertains to the interpretation of Adam in Hebrew scriptures. I am demonstrating below that “Christ crucified” may be none other than Adam shamed and killed (“crucified”) by a tree. IOW, presume no alleged historical Gospel Jesus.)

In his letter to the Galatians (at 3:1), Paul demanded to know,

Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was written beforehand (proegraphe (1), see also, Rom. 15:4, (2)) as crucified.

Paul suggests to his disciples in Galatia (far from Jerusalem) could see with their “very eyes” that Christ’s death was written in scripture (rather than see it as an event in Palestine). (Please note that contrary to what many assume, this passage lacks any historical Gospel Jesus dying on an actual cross.)

Suspend disbelief for a moment and try to think like Paul. Certainly, Paul is resorting to a pesher approach or method of allegorizing scripture to perceive his crucified Christ in scripture and he expected his audience to do the same. Let us critically investigate how and in what way Jesus or Joshua was crucified in scripture? Admittedly, a task not easy to do, because a few verses later (Galatians 3:13) he links Christ’s death to Deuteronomy 21:23. At first, it is not clear what point is to be taken from this.

If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance. (Deut 21:22-23)

I propose the missing link between Paul’s original thought of Christ crucified and this passage can be found at Romans 5:14, “Adam, who was a TYPE of the one who was to come.” In Paul’s mind Adam represents all humanity condemned by Jehovah for eating fruit from a tree, for

“Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all Men.” (Romans 5:12).

IOW, our outer man, i.e., body formed by Jehovah (Gen 2:7), is cursed by Jehovah, therefore, before our “very eyes” our mortal bodies, aka, Adam, is crucified or shamed and killed by a tree. Again, “Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day..” (2 corinthians 4:16)

It begs the question, if the outer man is wasting away or being crucified or cursed by Jehova, then who or what is the inner man?

The inner man would be the Adam made alive by the Holy Spirit, renewed by the cycle of Days.

I do not have time to go into details but Paul is presuming the foundation of duality established by the Essenes for the history and future of humanity. All humanity, aka, outer or bodily or fleshy Adam, has been crucified by Jehova, whereas, all “sons of light”, aka, inner or heavenly or spiritual Adam, are being “renewed day by day” by the Holy Spirit.

I think Paul’s point is that ritual purity prescribed in the Mosaic Law has no efficacy in removing the curse placed by Jehova on all of us, i.e., the outer Adam. It is only through the inner Holy Spirit making Adam alive and free from the curse that we become alive.

It is truly amazing to perceive a universal messiah or holy spirit bringing salvation (”Yeshua”) to humanity, aka, Adam, through his ”two anointed ones”, namely, the Teacher of Righteousness and Paul, “a prophet like Moses”, and “a light to the nations”, respectively.

References
1) prographó: to write before Original Word: προγράφω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: prographó
Phonetic Spelling: (prog-raf'-o)
Definition: to write before
Usage: (a) I write previously (aforetime); I write above (already), (b) I depict or portray openly, (c) I designate beforehand.


2) (Romans 15:4) “For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.”

Rotfl...

The NT doesn't belong in the Judaism forum, let alone the apostate Paul.

This is so way off.

 

[JosephLeo]

lol......

 

[docphin5]

Rotfl...

The NT doesn't belong in the Judaism forum, let alone the apostate Paul.

This is so way off.

As I have said before, the ONLY scriptures Paul had to work with were Hebrew scriptures.

in this OP I am demonstrating the Jewish (Essene) interpretation of the Hebrew creation myths as the source of Paul’s Christ. The Essenes existed long before the New Testament.

Therefore, Paul’s Christ has everything to do with Jewish interpretations of scripture. I even led in to this OP with Paul’s own words asserting that Christ crucified can be seen in HEBREW scripture.

Why run from it? Why run from your own scriptures?

In his letter to the Galatians (at 3:1), Paul demanded to know,

Before your very eyes
Jesus Christ was written beforehand (see also, Rom. 15:4, (2)) as crucified.

Paul suggests to his disciples in Galatia (far from Jerusalem) could see with their “very eyes” that Christ’s death was written in scripture (rather than see it as an event in Palestine). (Please note that contrary to what many assume, this passage lacks any historical Gospel Jesus dying on an actual cross.)

<snip>

2) (Romans 15:4) “For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.”

 

[Jewjitzu]

As I have said before, the ONLY scriptures Paul had to work with were Hebrew scriptures.

And yet he distorts them all over the place.

in this OP I am demonstrating the Jewish (Essene) interpretation of the Hebrew creation myths as the source of Paul’s Christ. The Essenes existed long before the New Testament.

No, it's your interpretation.

Therefore, Paul’s Christ has everything to do with Jewish interpretations of scripture. I even led in to this OP with Paul’s own words asserting that Christ crucified can be seen in HEBREW scripture.

Yes, Paul's words which aren't worth much.

Why run from it?

Rotfl... I'm attacking not running. Quite a difference.

 

[docphin5]

And yet he distorts them all over the place.


No, it's your interpretation.

Did you see post #2 coming directly from the Jewish sect at Qumran who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls up to 200 B.C.?

Yes, Paul's words which aren't worth much.


Rotfl... I'm attacking not running. Quite a difference.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Did you see post #2 coming directly from the Jewish sect at Qumran who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls up to 200 B.C.?

There are many sects. Do you know what Mormons, moonies, JWs, etc., have to say and are all their teachings credible?

 

[docphin5]

There are many sects. Do you know what Mormons, moonies, JWs, etc., have to say and are all their teachings credible?

The sect at Qumran were Jews interpreting their own scriptures. They possibly were priests in the Temple during the Hasmonean dynasty. Jewish nationals interpreting Hebrew scriptures about the Messiah.

 

[Jewjitzu]

The sect at Qumran were Jews interpreting their own scriptures. They possibly were priests in the Temple during the Hasmonean dynasty. Jewish nationals interpreting Hebrew scriptures about the Messiah.

Which doesn't make it a legitimate understanding of scripture.

Are the JWs, Mormons, Moonies, etc., legitimate?

 

[docphin5]

Which doesn't make it a legitimate understanding of scripture.

Are the JWs, Mormons, Moonies, etc., legitimate?

Equivocating a Jewish sect living in Palestine 2,200 years ago with Joseph Smith is absurd. That has got to be the weakest dodge I have ever seen on CARM.