Adam Shamed and Killed (“crucified”) by a Tree

sk0rpi0n

Active member
Rashi is but one opinion. There are others. Outside of Jewish Halacha (Jew), opinions aren't required to be accepted or believed.

What prominent sages/Rabbis hold the opinion that there was no literal historical Adam and Eve?

How many opinions do you have in Islam? Christianity? Etc.?

As far as Adam is concerned, the most influential scholars of Islam are of the opinion that he was a literal historical person.
 

Rachel Redux

Active member
Hi RR

how do You view the gap (or gaps or whatever) you are highlighting...?
do you view the creation week Days as 24hr ones?
I don't necessarily believe that creation was a literal 6 days. Scripture says a day is as a thousand years and I believe it could have been even longer. I do think that Jeremiah 4:23-26 shows this destruction happening. Also Isaiah 24:1.
Am I 100% married to this theory...not necessarily.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
So why do Jewish scholars like Rashi write of a literal historical Adam and Eve in a Garden of Eden in their commentaries? Was Rashi wrong?
I have not studied Rashi, except his book on Exodus. Lots of stuff to do with the rest of my life. :) We do not consider our sages to be infallible. I'm sure Rashi made mistakes, just like anyone would.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
If a reconstituted Sanhedrin put out a ruling affirming the historicity of Adam and Eve, would it matter? would it matter to You?
Since they didn't, I don't have to deal with it. And there is no law about believing in Adam and Eve, so it is beyond the jurisdiction of the Sanhedrin.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
Since they didn't, I don't have to deal with it. And there is no law about believing in Adam and Eve, so it is beyond the jurisdiction of the Sanhedrin.
if they did, would that fall under the category of Oral law? (which you have said is vital to Mosaic law observance)
or what if Messiah was to say as much, would that be significant?
 
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American Gothic

Well-known member
"Seven commandments were commanded of the sons of Noah"
- Tosefta
  1. concerning adjudication (dinim)
  2. concerning idolatry (avodah zarah)
  3. concerning blasphemy (qilelat ha-Shem)
  4. concerning sexual immorality (gilui arayot)
  5. concerning blood-shed (shefikhut damim)
  6. concerning robbery (gezel)
  7. concerning a limb torn from a living animal (ever min ha-hay)
believing what God says seems important to God

blasphemy
[ˈblasfəmē]

NOUN
the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.

"The word "blasphemy" came via Middle English blasfemen and Old French blasfemer and Late Latin blasphemare from Greek βλασφημέω, from βλασ, "injure" and φήμη, "utterance, talk, speech". From blasphemare also came Old French blasmer, from which the English word "blame" came. Blasphemy: 'from Gk. blasphemia "a speaking ill, impious speech, slander," from blasphemein "to speak evil of." "In the sense of speaking evil of God this word is found in Ps. 74:18; Isa. 52:5; Rom. 2:24; Rev. 13:1, 6; 16:9, 11, 21. It denotes also any kind of calumny, or evil-speaking, or abuse (1 Kings 21:10 LXX; Acts 13:45; 18:6, etc.)." -Wikipedia


as an aspiring Noahide,
if I denied the historicity of Adam and Eve and their creation as recorded in Torah, would I be breaking a commandment?
 
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Open Heart

Well-known member
if they did, would that fall under the category of Oral law? (which you have said is vital to Mosaic law observance)
or what if Messiah was to say as much, would that be significant?
You aren't getting it. The Sanhedrin does not rule on what one must believe, only on what the law is.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
"Seven commandments were commanded of the sons of Noah"
- Tosefta
  1. concerning adjudication (dinim)
  2. concerning idolatry (avodah zarah)
  3. concerning blasphemy (qilelat ha-Shem)
  4. concerning sexual immorality (gilui arayot)
  5. concerning blood-shed (shefikhut damim)
  6. concerning robbery (gezel)
  7. concerning a limb torn from a living animal (ever min ha-hay)
believing what God says seems important to God

blasphemy
[ˈblasfəmē]

NOUN
the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.

"The word "blasphemy" came via Middle English blasfemen and Old French blasfemer and Late Latin blasphemare from Greek βλασφημέω, from βλασ, "injure" and φήμη, "utterance, talk, speech". From blasphemare also came Old French blasmer, from which the English word "blame" came. Blasphemy: 'from Gk. blasphemia "a speaking ill, impious speech, slander," from blasphemein "to speak evil of." "In the sense of speaking evil of God this word is found in Ps. 74:18; Isa. 52:5; Rom. 2:24; Rev. 13:1, 6; 16:9, 11, 21. It denotes also any kind of calumny, or evil-speaking, or abuse (1 Kings 21:10 LXX; Acts 13:45; 18:6, etc.)." -Wikipedia


as an aspiring Noahide,
if I denied the historicity of Adam and Eve and their creation as recorded in Torah, would I be breaking a commandment?
No. Blasphemy is not the same thing as being mistaken.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
No. Blasphemy is not the same thing as being mistaken.
I don't get why people don't get this point other than they don't understand Jewish Law.

I don't see believing that the creation accounts are an allegory, for that opinion to be blasphemy. That idea of blasphemy is not supportable.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
I think it would be blasphemy for me to deny the truth of God's word - I would be calling Him a liar. (slander)
I wouldn't put Moses on the same level as JK Rowling

Admitting I just didn't understand it, if it is personally hard for me to reconcile in light of the claims
of Science, could be different

To me, believing what God says is Commanded
so that would fall under what the law is
 
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American Gothic

Well-known member
I mean, God left a whole generation to eventually die in the wilderness because
they just couldn't believe they could conquer the Canaanites,
as I assume Moses had said on His behalf
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
I think it would be blasphemy for me to deny the truth of God's word - I would be calling Him a liar. (slander)
I wouldn't put Moses on the same level as JK Rowling

Admitting I just didn't understand it, if it is personally hard for me to reconcile in light of the claims
of Science, could be different

To me, believing what God says is Commanded
so that would fall under what the law is
There is no commandment to believe that the Tanakh or any other collection of books is God's words.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
You can't conquer the land if you are already defeated by fear.
There is no commandment to believe that the Tanakh....is God's words.
"This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success. Have I not commanded you?
Be strong and of good courage; do not be afraid, nor be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go."
Joshua 1:8-9

The first proclamation of the Commandments
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery,” Exod. 20:2

Israel is commanded not just to Believe in God's existence but to Know God exists
wouldn't what follows be the necessity to Trust what that supreme Authority says as trustworthy and true?
 
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Open Heart

Well-known member
"This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success. Have I not commanded you?
Be strong and of good courage; do not be afraid, nor be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go."
Joshua 1:8-9

The first proclamation of the Commandments
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery,” Exod. 20:2

Israel is commanded not just to Believe in God's existence but to Know God exists
wouldn't what follows be the necessity to Trust what that supreme Authority says as trustworthy and true?
You altered my quote. I realize you have and OCD thing about making quotes as short as possible. But my statement was already short. I'm simply not going to cooperate and enable your compulsion. If you want me to answer you, all you have to do is take your post and alter it so taht it includes my full quote.
 
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